Holydiver vs. JB?

[syr2012]

Hello all, just business as usual, trying to kill time while waiting for my Raw Nickel HD to arrive. I've heard that it's similar to the Duncan JB (only better). I tried a guitar with the JB unwittingly (I just wanted to try something with a coil split). The full-on humbucker sound was pretty decent, cleaned up very well, didn't crunch too nicely in my experience, but distorted very well. Its coil split kinda held its own, volume drop is a given, but it was quite stratty, and not in the good way. To be painfully honest, its split was weak, thin, and uninspiring, and I'd definitely keep that push-pull in the "push" position. I heard earlier that the HD has more of a P-90 sound when split, it crunches well, harmonics and (fake) sustain were pleasing, and that it's not a well match for a dark guitar. Is there anything else that I should look forward to?

[Twinfan]

Probably not.

Just get, fit it and play it  :)

[MDV]

Its not like the modern JB, its like the original JB.

Never played an old JB, so someone else, if they so desire, will have to chime in with the difference.

[dheim]

i didn't even know there was a difference between earlier and late JBs, but for sure the JBs i had (contemporary models) sounded nowhere close the Holy Divers... much thicker, with less hi-mids and a different attack.

[MDV]

Apparently theres significant difference between the JB when it was first released and now. Dont know what, but this is what I've heard.

[Dr. Vic]

As far as I know (maybe I don't remember well), the 'old' JB was more around DC14K whereas the 'new' JB is around 16.4K.

The 'old' one had more dynamics, was more clear, less mudd, more straight talking, and agressive in a good tasty way.

Anyway I remember Tim telling me the closest to the 'new' JB BKP makes, is the HD.
But as BKP cure lots of duncan drawbacks we can say the HD has some of the advantages of the old JB voicing, with the new JB specifications (if it does make sense   :mrgreen:).


As for me, I am guessing the closest BKP to the old JB *might* be the rebell yell.  :roll:

 

[MDV]

Might be, yeah. Philking knows this stuff. Its definately the RY or the HD.

[Twinfan]

From what I've read, this 'old' / 'new' JB is rubbish.  The specs have never changed according to Seymour Duncan himself.

In my opinion, the difference over the years is the quality of the guitars they've been put in.  The pickups have remained fairly constant aside from any slight manufacturing changes in the raw materials.

[Philly Q]

From what I've read, this 'old' / 'new' JB is rubbish.  The specs have never changed according to Seymour Duncan himself.

In my opinion, the difference over the years is the quality of the guitars they've been put in.  The pickups have remained fairly constant aside from any slight manufacturing changes in the raw materials.

Oooh, that'll set the cat amongst the pigeons.  Potentially, almost as controversial as that ol' chestnut "Bill & Becky vs. Bill Lawrence USA".  :P

Or maybe not.

[MDV]

Ruh roh....

You fellas can have at it...I've heard some very contradictory information on this

I will say, in a general sense, not about the JB per se, that two pickups can look identical on paper and sound totally different...its in the wind...you should know that dave!

*Slowly backs away*

*starts running*

Bye!

[Antag]

To answer the original question, here were my first impressions from swapping a JB out for a Holy Diver...

[Antag]

From what I've read, this 'old' / 'new' JB is rubbish.  The specs have never changed according to Seymour Duncan himself.

In my opinion, the difference over the years is the quality of the guitars they've been put in.  The pickups have remained fairly constant aside from any slight manufacturing changes in the raw materials.

Not entirely convinced about this.

I've always believed the legend of the "old" JB because while the specs may not have changed, I actually have a NOS JB.  It certainly sounds different to the modern JB that was in my trusty RR1T (& the JBs I had in several other guitars - Jackson fit them as stock these days).  It's hard to describe (especially as I've since BKP'd all my other guitars that had JBs :)) but the NOS one seemed to have more "bite"  & "chunk" to it.  Palm mutes seemed to respond in a way they didn't on the other guitars.  I don't have the meter-thingy to measure the DCR of it...

I mention my RR1T because the guitar that has the NOS JB is a ltd edition Jackson Rhoads "original".  Same woods, same neck-thru construction, same body shape, similar weight, built in the same factory.

[Philly Q]

How old is your NOS JB, Antag? 

I've never been clear when the "old JB"/"new JB" demarcation line is supposed to be.

[gingataff]

From what I've read, this 'old' / 'new' JB is rubbish.  The specs have never changed according to Seymour Duncan himself.

In my opinion, the difference over the years is the quality of the guitars they've been put in.  The pickups have remained fairly constant aside from any slight manufacturing changes in the raw materials.

Oooh, that'll set the cat amongst the pigeons.  Potentially, almost as controversial as that ol' chestnut "Bill & Becky vs. Bill Lawrence USA".  :P

Or maybe not.

I'm not sure how relevant this is but a few years back ESP (who are the Japanese distributor for Seymour Duncan) commissioned "Prototype JBs" from the SD custom shop. Apparently this is a remake of the original pickup that Seymour made for Jeff's Tele, and it's 18k AII (the neck is about 17.9k), with a mid peak from 1kHz to 3kHz.
Certainly a little different to the regular AV model.

[Philly Q]

Yeah, good point.  I think they still use "Prototype" JBs on the Edwards copies of Beck's "TeleGib".