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Author Topic: amp builders  (Read 5214 times)

Dmoney

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amp builders
« on: May 19, 2009, 08:58:44 PM »
YO

so after playing a lot with my 2205, i've been thinking about trying a one off build based on whatever i end up with in my marshall. probably make it a single channel amp. thinking of ending up with similar controls on the front panel, plus a depth.

was wondering what to do about getting a chassis to attempt a build in. i really like the white Martamp v6-20 chassis. i dont know where i can pick up anything pre finished with the labeling i want or just a plain a chassis.

im kind of rambling. sorry. im sure you know what im getting at. id also like to know about turret boards and getting them made.



one more thing too.
is it worth having a master volume before the PI AND and PPIMV in the same amp? or is one better than the other?
or is two more versatile?



HTH AMPS

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Re: amp builders
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2009, 10:51:54 PM »
I had both types of MV in a SLO100-based amp I made years ago - allowed me to really dial in the tone perfectly.  I found that having the pre-PI MV around 3/4 full and using the post-PI MV to control the overall volume worked best.

For the chassis you could get a Ceriatone one.  Turretboards - there are loads of places that will make custom designs for you, but if you're making a one-off, just buy the FR4 board and some turrets.  Bluebell Audio have pretty much everything you need under one roof.

Dmoney

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Re: amp builders
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2009, 11:28:53 PM »
thanks again man.
i havent done any more work on my amp. had some really bad family problems so its on the back burner.
i think i might add a PPIMV on the rear of the amp.
i guess it really depends on how the amp sounds once ive balanced the two channels. not done any work on the clean channel yet.

if i build and amp i want to use this modded 2205 as a place to start.
it would be cool to build a similar amp with a clean channel that has bass mid treble and vol control, plus depth rather than reverb. i'm having trouble finding a chassis with 12 holes for control knobs and im not sure what id need to mount transformers. id also like to play with channel switching using other devices than IC's. i know the SLO uses optoisolators.

meh now im rambling.

cheers again

hamfist

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Re: amp builders
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 07:19:50 AM »
Deffo go with a PPIMV and a pre-PIMV. Gives you the best of both worlds, and lots of options in tone/volume control.

Another (cheaper and easier) option with your own build is to buy an old hand-wired 70's british amp, like a Selmer, Kelly or Carlsbro, and completely rebuilding it, using the chassis and transformers.
  The plus points are that the chassis, headcase, and power supply are pretty much done for you already. The transformers are also usually top quality.
 I can certainly recommend Selmer PA and treble and bass amps for this purpose. You are pretty much stuck with EL34's  though, so it's not what you need if you're looking at other output valves.

jpfamps

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Re: amp builders
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 11:10:03 AM »
We've use unpunched off-the-shelf chassis and drill/ punch the holes.

Whilst this is cheaper than buying a prepunched chassis and gives you greater flexibility, it is time consuming, and you will need to buy some chassis punches (we've got Q-max cutters) and/or cone cutter/ s and some decent drill bits, which might make the exercise more expensive then buying a one off. The cone cutter works really well and deburrs the holes.

Having said that, once the initial novelty of cutting nice holes in a piece on metal has worn off, I find this a bit of a pain, especially the deburring. Cutting the hole for the IEC socket is a pain with out a chassis punch (drill/ filling etc), and the IEC chassis punch is expensive.

Re choice of metals, steel is stronger, heavier and cheaper than aluminium, but is harder to work and will need some form of treatment to prevent corrosion. Steel is magnetic, so will conduct flux leaking from the mains transformer. This could be deemed beneficial as it could shield the small signal regions of the amp from any magnetic interference, however you could also be argued that flux could be conducted to the small signal regions of the amp and induce hum into the signal path.

Aluminium is non-magnetic and will not conduct flux through the chassis, so avoiding leakage flux inducing hum into the amp is simply a matter of ensure the input stage is as far as possible from the mains (which is good practice anyway).

Stainless steel is very hard to work, am I would not recommend it as DIY project unless already punched.

Low noise, great sounding amps have been constructed using all the above metals for their chassis.

We've now ordered a batch of our own chassis for amp construction on 1.6 mm steel.

For the electronics, we've use tag strip, tag board, eyelet board and turret board for amp construction (not all on the same amp I hasten to add!).

Tag strip requires some care regarding the layout, is not that flexible layout wise and can be difficult to modify as the components should ideally be crimped onto the tags. I've also had problems with DC leakage on tag strip, so I would also ensure that high voltages are connected to tags as far away from small signals as possible. Another problem with tag strip is that the tag strip has to be bolted into the chassis before construction can start and this can make assemble more difficult.

Tag board is probably easier to use than tag strip. I've not had DC leakage problems with this, although as it's made from the same material as tag strip this could be an issue. Tag board can be assembled outside the amp.

Turret board probably provides the sturdiest method of amp construction as a very good mechanical joint can be made before soldering. You can buy board with turrets attached, or make your own, which gives good flexibility of layout. Of the methods listed herein turret board is the most expensive method of construction. To build you own boards you will need a tool for swaging the turrets in.

Eyelet board is cheaper than turret board, and if you make your own is very flexible in the layout. Making your own eyelet board is easier than making turret board. Having repaired tons of Fender amps, this is a very reliable method of construction — it is very rear for an amp to have a fault due to a problem with the board — and changing parts is very straight forward, which should be a consideration if you want to tweak your design.

I now favour a mixture of turret and eyelet board, as I think that this gives the best flexibility regarding layout, cost (eyelets are way cheaper than turrets), and sturdiness (turrets can be used for wire connections off the board).

Regarding board material, FR4 is very good, but we now favour 3 mm PTFE, although 1.5 mm PTFE works OK too in Fender style amps. PTFE has better electrical properties than FR4 (or indeed anything else), is very easy to work, and doesn't produce nasty particles when drilled, unlike FR4. It also costs about the same as FR4.

We use relays for switching. Optocouplers are relatively expensive, unreliable, noisy, and not great switches as they can have significant feed through in high impedance circuits. JFETS can also be used as long as attention is paid to the maximum signal then will see.






Dmoney

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Re: amp builders
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 01:39:27 PM »
yeah man.

eyelet board sounds like a good plan. i really would like the ability to tweak what im doing

also thought about getting a straight JCM 800 2204 chassis and using on of the input holes to mount another knob if i need it. i want to do some experimentation with the 2205, and maybe work out a single channel amp with 7 controls.

a 2204 chassis would be cool.

also. the newer JJ 50+50 500v filter caps are much shorter than the 80's LCR's right?
are these easy to mount internally on chassis?
i also need to read up on choke's and laydown/standup PT's.

i think the 2204 has laydown, which would probably have different chassis mounts than a stand up PT




jpfamps

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Re: amp builders
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 02:18:15 PM »
yeah man.

eyelet board sounds like a good plan. i really would like the ability to tweak what im doing

also thought about getting a straight JCM 800 2204 chassis and using on of the input holes to mount another knob if i need it. i want to do some experimentation with the 2205, and maybe work out a single channel amp with 7 controls.

a 2204 chassis would be cool.

also. the newer JJ 50+50 500v filter caps are much shorter than the 80's LCR's right?
are these easy to mount internally on chassis?
i also need to read up on choke's and laydown/standup PT's.

i think the 2204 has laydown, which would probably have different chassis mounts than a stand up PT





I don't like the JJ can caps.

I prefer F&Ts. These have much better electrical specifications and temperature rating than the JJs. JJ's also have a slightly larger diameter than the old can caps, so can be a pain to fit.

Marshall stopped using laydown transformers by about 1974, so no genuine JCM800 will have a laydown.

There are plenty of options regarding repro mains transformers, chokes etc, so I wouldn't be too worried about sourcing these, although Marshall will not sell you any parts which require removing the chassis from an amp to fit, unless you are registered with them as a suitable person to be doing this work.

jpfamps

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Re: amp builders
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 02:19:32 PM »
yeah man.

eyelet board sounds like a good plan. i really would like the ability to tweak what im doing

also thought about getting a straight JCM 800 2204 chassis and using on of the input holes to mount another knob if i need it. i want to do some experimentation with the 2205, and maybe work out a single channel amp with 7 controls.

a 2204 chassis would be cool.

also. the newer JJ 50+50 500v filter caps are much shorter than the 80's LCR's right?
are these easy to mount internally on chassis?
i also need to read up on choke's and laydown/standup PT's.

i think the 2204 has laydown, which would probably have different chassis mounts than a stand up PT






re your question about mounting the can cap internally.

You can do this (Hiwatt did for example), however the main convenience of using can caps is mounting them through the chassis. Unless you had a very large stock of can caps lying around, if you are going to mount the caps internally, then I would use individual caps (cable tied to the board), which will give you more options re caps + grounding.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 02:22:44 PM by jpfamps »