Another pickup adjustment question

[Prawnik]

OK, my late '69 Strat is assembled and mostly set up. Photos will follow as soon as I get my digital camera back.

The guitar features Mother's Milk bridge and middle pickups; the neck pickup is a BKP re-wind of what I think is a 1967 Fender Mustang pickup. Very low impedance, around 5.5 KO.

The neck pickup seems to sound pretty good no matter what I do with it; warm, clear, bell-like. It is the middle and bridge pickups that I cannot quite figure out. For want of a better description, they seem kind of generic, polite, not as three-dimensional as the neck pickup.

I've been fine-tuning string heights and neck relief yesterday and today, and that has helped a lot. But there is still something missing.

Any suggestions how to set pickup height on a Strat?

[Plexi Ken]

Maybe this post from Hunter can help,
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=909d2779e0664ed25d01a7ff8e9b29f1&topic=13846.0

[hunter]

I am not such a pro with Fenders, as I mainly have humbucker guitars.

But if you would talk about a Humbucker guitar, I'd recommend to try vintage wiring, in case it has modern wiring. This usually gives a tad more air, bite and dynamics. Not sure if that makes any sense on a Strat though.

[Ratrod]

Fender's recommended adjustments for vintage style pickups are 6/64" bass side and 5/64" treble side. measured from the bottom of the string to the top of the polepiece.

Start with that. Then experiment with the height. Try 1/64" lower or higher and hear what floats your boat.

[Prawnik]

I am not such a pro with Fenders, as I mainly have humbucker guitars.

But if you would talk about a Humbucker guitar, I'd recommend to try vintage wiring, in case it has modern wiring. This usually gives a tad more air, bite and dynamics. Not sure if that makes any sense on a Strat though.

Wiring is not only a direct copy of Fender wiring from 1969, but I am also using vintage pots (two original Fenders from 1966 and one Ernie Ball replacement from the early 1983), a vintage switch and an original Fender capacitor from the 1960's.

The jack is new.

But as I said, the whole thing sounds good fromt he point of view of the neck pickup. It's the bridge and middle that I haven't figured out.

[AndyR]

When I first got my ITs, I was blown away by the bridge and, to a lesser extent, the neck. But the middle wasn't doing it for me - I'd have said the same as you "generic, polite, not as three-dimensional". And the middle pickup always used to be my go-to position on a strat...

Hunter's thread above was very useful (mainly for my teles), I can recommend the technique described, but I'd pretty much sorted my strat out by then, so it was only a vague tweak here and there.

I think what I found was that "generic, polite, not as three-dimensional" was possibly in my head. As I got used to playing with the new pickups, my fingers started to take advantage of what they offered. I'm back on the middle pickup as my go-to position, and I much prefer the sound of the IT middle to the pickup it replaced (off in another guitar).

[Prawnik]

Another thought I had was that maybe one of the (very) vintage pots or caps I had in this guitar is out-of-spec.

There are two problems with that theory:

One is a bridge pickup; in a vintage Strat setup, the bridge pickup never sees a tone pot or a tone cap. Since the bridge pickup is one of the culprits, the only pot it sees is the volume pot.

The other problem is the neck pickup. If the volume pot is out-of-whack, why does the neck pickup sound really good?

Could it be that, because the neck pickup is so bright, a worn-out volume pot is making the neck pickup seem warm and full and the other pickups seem lifeless?

I do not know.

Another idea I had was to swap the neck and middle pickups and see what happens. For that matter, since I have a spare MM, I could try swapping out the bridge pickup, too.

[Prawnik]

Sorry I am bumping my own reply, but another idea to bounce off the experts here:

As an experiment, I have the tremolo on this guitar set relatively "soft"; five springs and the bridge flush with the body, but less spring tension than I have used in the past. (I did this in an attempt to squeeze out more midrange than the typical Strat.)

Maybe that is the real problem here? Anyway, playing with the tremolo claw is a relatively easy experiment.

[AndyR]

To be honest, I know it's meant to, but I've never noticed any difference in tone with different trem set-ups on the same guitar :lol:

Maybe I wasn't paying attention?

My current strat originally had a "traditional" floating trem set-up with 3 springs. I kept it like that for a while, even with the ITs in. But I don't use the trem a whole lot, and I don't like how bending a string flattens the others on a floating trem guitar, so I put 5 springs in and tightened it down flush - I didn't notice any tonal change myself...

[Philly Q]

My current strat originally had a "traditional" floating trem set-up with 3 springs. I kept it like that for a while, even with the ITs in. But I don't use the trem a whole lot, and I don't like how bending a string flattens the others on a floating trem guitar, so I put 5 springs in and tightened it down flush - I didn't notice any tonal change myself...

I'm surprised by that.  I'm not sure how much difference three springs versus four makes, or if it makes any difference tightening the springs more when the bridge is already flat on the body... but I think there is a noticeable difference between floating and non-floating.

If you have the trem slightly floating, then pull up on the bar, IMO you can hear the tone and sustain change the instant the bridge is flat on the body.  Part of that may be down to the slight increase in string tension as you pull up, but I do believe "hardtailing" the bridge has an effect.

[AndyR]

That's interesting - when it was floating, I don't recall noticing what you describe Philly :roll:

I would draw attention to my "Maybe I wasn't paying attention?" though :lol:

Are you able to describe what the change in tone is when it gets flat with the body? And whether the sustain is meant to increase/decrease?

[Philly Q]

I don't have any trem-equipped guitars at the moment to put it to the test, but the sustain increases and (I may be imagining this) there's a bit more acoustic volume.

I assume it's because the string vibrations are being transmitted into the body via the whole bridge plate rather than just some screws at the front.

See this thread for an unlikely theory about increasing this effect by removing the paint under the bridge  :roll: :

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17509.0


Now the caveat:  Does this translate (noticeably) into the amplified tone?  I don't know.  I spend most of my time playing unplugged.  It may be like a Thinline Tele, which sounds totally different from a solidbody unplugged, but not so very different amplified.

[AndyR]

Yeah, I was watching that thread with some amusement :lol:

Interesting about the unplugged/amplified... I concentrate very hard on "unplugged" when buying, but when I've got the thing home, I hardly ever pay any attention to unplugged (except to compare guitars of the same type when the new one first comes home!)

EDIT: So my gut feeling, but only from my experience, Prawnik, is that this trem business might have some effect, but for your case, I reckon other factors would probably change the tone more?

[Prawnik]

In my experience, setting the trem to floating vs. flush makes a big difference.

A "floater" has a warmer tone and less sustain; a flush tremolo gives the guitar a more steely tone with emphasis on the fundamental.

At least in my experience.

I think the flush tremolo sound is where I am trying to take this guitar. It is already set up that way, what I am proposing to try next is to tighten the tremolo claw down so as to increase spring tension (and change the resonant frequency of the trem springs).

Then  again, for all I know this guitar may sound better set up as a floater. Every guitar I have built has always been a little different and likes a different setup than what I planned.

I really did not think the '69 hardtail Strat I made would do GnR impersonations when I built it, for instance.

So all I can do is experiment. I am just trying to get your ideas for experiments until I find the one that turns the key.

[Prawnik]

OK, I feel like an utter prat for eternally answering my own answers in my own threads, but I tried the trem spring experiment this morning. Brought each screw holding the trem claws in a turn or so (which is actually quite a lot, as the thread pitch on these screws is very coarse.)

That, combined with some tweaking of the pickup and string heights seems to made things a lot more sparkly in Strat-land.

I say "seems" because auditory memory is very unreliable, and all I have to go on are my memories of how that guitar sounded, not to mention some control-group problems.

My mind is playing tricks on me.