OZZY OSBOURNE Suing TONY IOMMI For 50% Interest In BLACK SABBATH Trademark

[Elliot]

Its quite obvious, reading between the lines of the stories told, that Iommi was the cool kid school who Ozzy desparately wanted to be in with.  Now that Ozzy has the cash, he's getting (via Sharon) his own back.

I hate metal - but the new Heaven and Hell album is stonking good - and I have always loved Sabbath's cheap, low skill ethos (ehh, does that mean I actually hate metal?  )

[Dmoney]

low skill ethos?
the power of the riff compels you.

i need to hear heav'n'hell. i hear there is some cool parapedal use on it.

[gwEm]

clearly this law suit is madness... but it could come off unfortunately - i bet the osbournes have amazing lawyers.

[Afghan Dave]

clearly this law suit is madness... but it could come off unfortunately - i bet the osbournes have amazing lawyers.

I thought Lee Kerslake and Bob Daisley would have been safe but it seems that Sharon's money buys a different interpretation of justice.

[Philly Q]

clearly this law suit is madness... but it could come off unfortunately - i bet the osbournes have amazing lawyers.

I thought Lee Kerslake and Bob Daisley would have been safe but it seems that Sharon's money buys a different interpretation of justice.

It's Hollywood law, isn't it?  Celebrity seems to buy you a completely different definition of "justice" over there.  I was amazed Phil Spector actually got convicted last week.

[blue]

clearly this law suit is madness... but it could come off unfortunately - i bet the osbournes have amazing lawyers.

I thought Lee Kerslake and Bob Daisley would have been safe but it seems that Sharon's money buys a different interpretation of justice.

It's Hollywood law, isn't it?  Celebrity seems to buy you a completely different definition of "justice" over there.  I was amazed Phil Spector actually got convicted last week.

yeah, he got convicted, but now comes the appeal!

the sabbath thing is ridiculous.  it does seem like sour grapes, "how dare they go off and play with a different singer and do well!!" .  if they hadn't called themselves Heaven & Hell this time, she'd probably be looking for half the money from it too!  Ozzy presumably gets a fair share from the albums he was on, filled with songs written by Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler.  this woman is simply greed incarnate.

[AndyR]

I'm feeling a little uncomfortable about all this Sharon bashing over this issue (she might need it for other reasons, I can't comment, don't know that much about her... :lol:)

This appears to be about ownership/interest in the trademark "Black Sabbath" (assuming it is trademarked?).

As far as I understand it, that would have no affect at all on song-writing or mechanical royalties - these would continue to be accrued and paid according to the individual contracts everyone signed originally. So, from this understanding, it's not Ozzy claiming a share of income on songs, recordings and past performances he was not involved in.

The ownership/interest in the trademark "Black Sabbath" would be all about two things:

a) who has to give permission before someone is allowed to use that trademark (record an album, go on tour, print a t-shirt, etc...)

b) who gets income from "merchandise" (badges, t-shirts, posters, sex-aids, etc) that takes any advantage of the trademark

I suspect that Ozzy's got the hump about part a), and that the past "income" talked about is part b) only.

If that's the case, then I think he's got a point. (Except, wot about Geezer and Ward... do they all get 50% too? .... perhaps maths isn't a strong point in the various BS camp(s) :lol:)

I could be wrong in my understanding, but we don't seem to have enough facts to be slagging someone off for doing their job?

I'd fully expect my manager to ensure that I got maximum benefit possible from any exploitation by others of my work - the argument here would be, I guess, that Ozzy was involved in establishing the trademark, and that his personality is part of that trademark. Whether this is true or defendable is what a court case would be about  - noone's actually made any judgements yet, they're just putting across a point of view that needs to be addressed.

Sharon might not be to everyone's taste, not mine either actually, but if it is her behind it, she's just doing her job... she just has a little extra motivation because she's married to the artiste, but so what?

[Philly Q]

You may be right, but I still think since he left the band he shouldn't be entitled to all that (I'm talking morally, not legally!).

Ozzy went, Tony kept the ship afloat.  If he hadn't, there might be not be any Black Sabbath merchandise sold any more, 30 years down the line.  Ozzy's had his own career.

If Ozzy were to win this case, will it set a precedent?  Will all 7,000 ex-members of Guns N'Roses start suing Axl?  Maybe all the ex Ozzy band members will sue him, that would be poetic justice.

[Crazy_Joe]

Surely if anybody should own it, it shouldn't be Ozzy or Iommi, but it should be Geezer Butler since he came up with the name in the first place.

[AndyR]

Surely if anybody should own it, it shouldn't be Ozzy or Iommi, but it should be Geezer Butler since he came up with the name in the first place.

Ah, thanks for that - I was wondering if it was known who was responsible for coming up with it in the first place.

Also, did Ozzy leave or was he kicked out? I understand it was kinda mutual at the time, but...

There's obviously been bad vibes all the way down the line. Even in the 80s Ozzy obviously felt disappointed/upset by what he felt Black Sabbath were doing with the "legacy" (ma-an! :lol:) - he went and recorded and released "Talk of the Devil" for starters... come to think of it, he was probably expecting the band to all go their separate ways when he left, and start anew like he did, trading on their own names not their collective name, that's probably what's at the heart of this, and it's never been resolved.

As punters, me and my crowd were quite impressed with the Heaven and Hell album, but it wasn't really a Black Sabbath album - it didn't sound like one, look like one, etc, etc. (It sounded like a good Rainbow album! :lol:)

But we accepted it, OK, this is where it's going. Then Mob Rules seemed a bit stodgy to us, and the live album... hmmm... Then Ozzy's Talk of the Devil came out and we were "YEAH" this is what "Black Sabbath" is.

That's just how we felt, a particular bunch of idiots living in Exeter, so personal opinion only... but I'm guessing there's a lot of passion/myth wrapped up in this particular band, and a lot of chance for punters to take differing sides... Personally I'm in the "Black Sabbath is Osbourne/Iommi/Butler/Ward" camp, and to be honest, if we were doing word association, and you said "Black Sabbath" I'd probably say "Ozzy Osbourne", Tony Iommi would only come as an after-thought - but that's just my personal perception and image of what the trademark means.

If there's enough people out there like me, Ozzy's got a point...

But when it comes down to it - this lawsuit thing is just business, sorting something that should have been hammered out a long long time ago... in private... It's a sticky divorce that didn't get done properly and there's still loose ends...

EDIT: All a bit sad really :( (if only they'd had counselling after the Technical Ecstacy sessions and tour :lol:)

[Philly Q]

As punters, me and my crowd were quite impressed with the Heaven and Hell album, but it wasn't really a Black Sabbath album - it didn't sound like one, look like one, etc, etc. (It sounded like a good Rainbow album! :lol:)

How very dare you!

Nothing wrong with any of the Dio Rainbow albums!

[AndyR]

:lol:

I like the Dio Rainbow albums as well, that's not exactly what I meant...

... I seem to remember there was at least one @rse Rainbow album out by the time Heaven and Hell appeared - the comparison at the time was "hey it sounds like the Rainbow albums we used to get..."

[Philly Q]

I hope you didn't dismiss Down To Earth just because there were a couple of hit singles and Graham Bonnet had short hair!  It's a great album, even though the musical style was a lot different from the Dio years.

I admit they started to slide during the Joe Lynn Turner period - they were right to split up when they did...

Still, if Rainbow hadn't carried on after Dio left, what would Yngwie Malmsteen have done for vocalists?

[Denim n Leather]

Surrender? Stone Cold? Street Of Dreams?

I beg to differ!!!

[Philly Q]

Surrender? Stone Cold? Street Of Dreams?

I beg to differ!!!

Those were the good ones, no argument!  But it's unusual to find rock albums where the singles are the best tracks!

I really like Difficult to Cure, but then on the next album there was poop like "Death Alley Driver" and "Tite Squeeze", and most of Bent out of Shape was pretty lacklustre.  It wasn't as good once Roger Glover stopped contributing to the writing, IMO.