Username: Password:

Author Topic: THX 4 FEEDBACK - NEW CLIPS ADDED - OK, now I've done a real shootout  (Read 6208 times)

hunter

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 5262
    • http://www.myspace.com/christophjaeger
Now I wanted to really know it, you may officially call me insane.
Luckily recording direct is quick, so this whole thing was done in 20 minutes apart from dialing in the sounds before 8)

Soo I dialed in some similar patches here,
-all using the same cab model and
-all boosted by a tube screamer model, gain=0, tone=10, volume=10,
-similar gain, EQ and other settings,
-slight playing differences cannot be avoided as I didn't reamp them.

Here we go(PRS McCarty with RebelYells used):
1. Peavey 5150: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/5150.mp3
2. Bogner Ueberschall: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/Bogner_Ueber.mp3
3. Custom Audio CAE3: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/CAE3.mp3
4. Diezel VH4: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/Diezel.mp3
5. Engl Powerball: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/Engl.mp3
6. Fryette/VHT Deliverance: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/Fryette.mp3
7. Recto New: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/Recto_New.mp3
8. Recto Orange: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/Recto_Orange.mp3
9. Soldano SLO100: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/Soldano.mp3

Watcha think? Most/least favourites?

EDIT:
First thanks for all the feedback, it really helps me tweaking better!
Some people were saying that it's not right, mids bad, too plastic etc.

Sooo, I reworked 2 patches, different cabs, different settings, and would like to again invite for some feedback, good bad or destructive, I am happy about any remarks.

Reworked SLO: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/slo_reworked.mp3
Reworked 5150: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/5150_reworked.mp3

New approach Uebrschall: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/ueber_newapproach.mp3
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 09:55:04 AM by hunter »
Tweaker's Paradise - Player's nightmare.

Twinfan

  • Light Heavyweight
  • ******
  • Posts: 10528
Re: OK, now I've done a real shootout (9 Axe amp models, rhythm & lead)
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 09:45:46 PM »
Err, they all sound the same to me!  As if the same recording has been EQ'd differently in a mix?  :?

hunter

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 5262
    • http://www.myspace.com/christophjaeger
Re: OK, now I've done a real shootout (9 Axe amp models, rhythm & lead)
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 09:49:23 PM »
Err, they all sound the same to me!  As if the same recording has been EQ'd differently in a mix?  :?

Yeah i deliberately dialed them in in similar ways with same cab etc.

If you leave away the tube screamer and dial in the amps on neutral settings they're much more different.
Still I think there are big differences between e.g. the SLO and the VHT etc.

Depends also on what you listen to them for sure.
Tweaker's Paradise - Player's nightmare.

Twinfan

  • Light Heavyweight
  • ******
  • Posts: 10528
Re: OK, now I've done a real shootout (9 Axe amp models, rhythm & lead)
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 11:09:50 PM »
I guess so.....

indysmith

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4713
    • Soundcloud
Re: OK, now I've done a real shootout (9 Axe amp models, rhythm & lead)
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2009, 12:38:23 AM »
Yeah... they're all basically the same. I'm not sure I'd be bothered about the differences between them.
Not really into the sound either tbh, but that's probably more my preference for less gain and scoopiness than anything else. Sorry to be negative! If I were to choose one I think it'd be the CAE3.
LOVING the Mules!

hamfist

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 1341
Re: OK, now I've done a real shootout (9 Axe amp models, rhythm & lead)
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2009, 07:07:36 AM »
They do sound similar, that's true, but that's because you are focussing down to the sound you are really looking for.
  On it's own, I like the Powerball patch the best for rhythm. WHichever patch you choose, you might have to tweak the mids to use it in a band setting.
  To be honest, I don't really like any of them for a lead tone. Which isn't really surprising, as a good rhythm tone requires different characteristics to a good lead tone.
  Of the tones that you have there, I prefer the Recto new for leads.  Although all the tones are too harsh, and not "soft" enough for me fro lead. A hi gain rhythm tone requires punishing tightness, clarity and attack. For me, I'm looking for a lot more mids, less treble and a softer attack on a lead tone. Lead playing on a good rhythm tone sounds very harsh to me.

hunter

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 5262
    • http://www.myspace.com/christophjaeger
Re: OK, now I've done a real shootout (9 Axe amp models, rhythm & lead)
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2009, 08:10:48 AM »
They do sound similar, that's true, but that's because you are focussing down to the sound you are really looking for.
  On it's own, I like the Powerball patch the best for rhythm. WHichever patch you choose, you might have to tweak the mids to use it in a band setting.
  To be honest, I don't really like any of them for a lead tone. Which isn't really surprising, as a good rhythm tone requires different characteristics to a good lead tone.
  Of the tones that you have there, I prefer the Recto new for leads.  Although all the tones are too harsh, and not "soft" enough for me fro lead. A hi gain rhythm tone requires punishing tightness, clarity and attack. For me, I'm looking for a lot more mids, less treble and a softer attack on a lead tone. Lead playing on a good rhythm tone sounds very harsh to me.

Yeah, I have special taste for leads, I like them to be equal to my rhythm tones with just some delay, like em sharp :O)

You say "tweak the mids", what do you mean by this, more mids, less mids or a different mid peak?

Probably a lot comes from the tube screamer and cabs used - things change drastically with a different cab or different boost pedal (or even lowering the locut frequency of the TS which is by default at 680Hz).
Tweaker's Paradise - Player's nightmare.

hamfist

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 1341
Re: OK, now I've done a real shootout (9 Axe amp models, rhythm & lead)
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2009, 11:44:02 AM »
You say "tweak the mids", what do you mean by this, more mids, less mids or a different mid peak?

You certainly won't need less mids.

I just find that sometimes I work a tone out on my own, and think it's going to sound great. Then all of a sudden, when I use it with the band, it needs more mids to cut through.   I find it a bit unpredictable to know when that's going to happen though - maybe it's because I've got cloth ears.

You, no doubt, have a superb ear and I'm sure this would never happen to you.  :wink:

hunter

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 5262
    • http://www.myspace.com/christophjaeger
Re: OK, now I've done a real shootout (9 Axe amp models, rhythm & lead)
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2009, 12:11:06 PM »

You, no doubt, have a superb ear and I'm sure this would never happen to you.  :wink:

Dude, totally, never ever!  :lol:
Tweaker's Paradise - Player's nightmare.

Denim n Leather

  • Guest
Re: OK, now I've done a real shootout (9 Axe amp models, rhythm & lead)
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2009, 03:58:53 PM »
Just getting over the flu ... I look forward to hearing these clips soon!!

nfe

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 2510
Re: OK, now I've done a real shootout (9 Axe amp models, rhythm & lead)
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2009, 11:25:07 PM »
They're all so similar I can barely offer an opinion. None of them jump out to me as a great tone though I'm afraid. It's all very Line 6.


hunter

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 5262
    • http://www.myspace.com/christophjaeger
Re: THX 4 FEEDBACK - NEW CLIPS ADDED - OK, now I've done a real shootout
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2009, 11:08:02 AM »
THANKS!

First thanks for all the feedback, it really helps me tweaking better - this unit has such endless tones, many bad ones, many good ones!

Some people were saying that it's not right, mids bad, too plastic etc.

Sooo, I reworked 2 patches, different cabs, different settings, and would like to again invite for some feedback, good bad or destructive, I am happy about ANY remarks.

Reworked SLO: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/slo_reworked.mp3
Reworked 5150: http://www.klangforschungszentrum.de/temp/shootout/5150_reworked.mp3
Tweaker's Paradise - Player's nightmare.

indysmith

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 4713
    • Soundcloud
Re: THX 4 FEEDBACK - NEW CLIPS ADDED - OK, now I've done a real shootout
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2009, 03:17:58 PM »
Those ones sound a bit better; the mids are definitely a lot nicer, but the clips still sound like a modeller to me... The delay/reverb is too false, and the sound is too 'hi-fi'. My ears just don't tell me that it feels like a real amp.
Don't get me wrong, I think that the Axe seems like a fun tool and would be GREAT for recording with; probably gaining the best bang for the buck on the market today and also providing the easiest way to get great sounds with the least recording skill, but the technology still hasn't convinced me that it can replace a real amp with a nice mic or a few nice mics in front of it. (and I don't want it to!)
In the end it's a great sounding modeller and that's what it sounds like. Not an amp.
I think the best possible use for it would be at live venues. Guitarists could show up without hoarding heavy amps about, dial in a great sound through the P.A. and get on with playing! And being live, you wouldn't need to worry so much about feedback, shitety microphones, placement, and nobody is likely to notice you're using a modeller.
LOVING the Mules!

hamfist

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 1341
Re: THX 4 FEEDBACK - NEW CLIPS ADDED - OK, now I've done a real shootout
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2009, 05:17:46 PM »
Your new clips sound slightly less "polished" and rather more like a close mic'ed amp, which is good if that's what you are looking for !

For me, I prefer the SLO tone to the 5150.

What are you actually intending to use these patches for Hunter ?  Live band use ?  If so, FRFR or amp/cab ?Recording ?

I'm assuming that we are hearing the direct recorded tone. But that will actually sound very different to the tone you would get out of your cab(s), I'll bet.

For those commenting about the clips all sounding like a modeller, I suspect that they are either listening with their eyes (ie. it can't sound good because it's a modeller), or are not actually experienced at recording amps and hearing what a dry, close mic'ed recording sounds like.

It is impossible to capture the experience of sitting in front of an amp/cab when you record it. it will be similar, but different.

For me, you're getting closer and closer Hunter. I'd want a touch more bottom end in those last clips though.  :D

hunter

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 5262
    • http://www.myspace.com/christophjaeger
Re: THX 4 FEEDBACK - NEW CLIPS ADDED - OK, now I've done a real shootout
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2009, 05:35:34 PM »
Your new clips sound slightly less "polished" and rather more like a close mic'ed amp, which is good if that's what you are looking for !

For me, I prefer the SLO tone to the 5150.

What are you actually intending to use these patches for Hunter ?  Live band use ?  If so, FRFR or amp/cab ?Recording ?

I'm assuming that we are hearing the direct recorded tone. But that will actually sound very different to the tone you would get out of your cab(s), I'll bet.

For those commenting about the clips all sounding like a modeller, I suspect that they are either listening with their eyes (ie. it can't sound good because it's a modeller), or are not actually experienced at recording amps and hearing what a dry, close mic'ed recording sounds like.

It is impossible to capture the experience of sitting in front of an amp/cab when you record it. it will be similar, but different.

For me, you're getting closer and closer Hunter. I'd want a touch more bottom end in those last clips though.  :D


Thanks, yeah bottom end is a bit thin, but it helps in context with a bass, keyboards and another guitar I guess, will see Monday in rehearsal.

The intention is to get sounds that I use FRFR in a live situation. I won't be using the poweramp/guitarcab, but rather running through a FBT Verve12MA fullrange monitor - which is like my big balls guitar combo at the moment. It really gives that 4x12 thump while offering enough neutral response to be able to use different sounding cab IRs for different tones. It has coax design so doesn't offer many of the disadvantages of a "normal" 12"/2 monitor, and it has a quite equal spread of 120° which is much more than any rig I played before.

I have done 2 rehearsals with it and it was great, incl. compliments from the band members and wondering faces when they saw the size of the box as opposed to the amount of noise it makes :O)

My aim is to get rid of big rigs and rather have a small, very versatile, consistent package. Like this I can play the same setup with the metal band as with the cover band, get convincing clean, crunch, rock and metal sounds incl. the individual matching cab and even run acoustic and electric through the same rig (it being FRFR).

Biggest trouble I have is dialing in the metal part of it - but that's always been my weakness, I think since I heard "Holy Diver" for the first time, I wanted certain sounds and never got them, so for about 22 years...arghhh.

Well I think the 5150/reworked can be a good starting point to tweak from. Used a different cab and mic mix for that and that makes all the difference I suppose.
Tweaker's Paradise - Player's nightmare.