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Author Topic: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust  (Read 5135 times)

Dmoney

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yo!
so i had my uber opened up to have a nosey about and changed some of the preamp tube so the amp is less fizzy now. played it slightly cranked which im sure annoyed my neighbors.

anyway.
V6, the Phase Inverter has a dial beside it. apparently it is a symetry adjust for the phase inverter.

can anybody enlighten me as to how this works and its effect and why its on this amp?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 11:18:41 PM by Dmoney »

Dmoney

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2009, 12:09:42 PM »
maybe this thread should be moved to the tech section.

attached a pic of what im on about anyway.

Denim n Leather

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2009, 02:26:03 PM »
Interesting. Have you tried turning the pot to see how it affects the tone?

Dmoney

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2009, 07:43:29 PM »
no. i asked bogner about it and the reply was

DONT TOUCH THAT UNLESS YOU ARE A QUALIFIED TECH

but they didnt tell me its effect. lack of info. i dont actually find bogner support very good.

indysmith

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2009, 07:45:30 PM »
:roll: Doesn't sound like you've been having much luck with customer support services recently Dmoney!
Your email address isn't paedophile@hotmail.com or something is it?
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Dmoney

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2009, 07:54:57 PM »
:roll: Doesn't sound like you've been having much luck with customer support services recently Dmoney!
Your email address isn't paedophile@hotmail.com or something is it?

nah.
HOWEVER!
today i did go to town to try delays and chorus pedal, and this babe was working in vintage & rare down tin pan alley, and i think i fell in love. i had to go and try a few pedals but (like any self respecting musician) i was too afraid to ask for her digits. lame! if only i'd taken my 'ignorant pills' and ive been straight in there!

Oli

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2009, 08:58:50 PM »
:roll: Doesn't sound like you've been having much luck with customer support services recently Dmoney!
Your email address isn't paedophile@hotmail.com or something is it?

nah.
HOWEVER!
today i did go to town to try delays and chorus pedal, and this babe was working in vintage & rare down tin pan alley, and i think i fell in love. i had to go and try a few pedals but (like any self respecting musician) i was too afraid to ask for her digits. lame! if only i'd taken my 'ignorant pills' and ive been straight in there!

Hah, balls to the woman, what chorus pedal(s) did you try? I tried a JAM Waterfall in there, and it was the best chorus i've ever heard... it's a shame that i've got to pay for repairs and insurance on my car this week, otherwise i'd have bought it!

Phase symmetry to me sounds like it'll alter the distortion that the PI and the output valves create, perhaps by adjusting the phase of the two outputs on the PI. That's just a guess though, so it's liable to be completely wrong :)
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Dmoney

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2009, 02:15:59 AM »
chorus notes in the chorus thread.

thats makes sense, but i dont want to mess with it if im not sure what it does... the symetry dial i mean.

JRM75

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2009, 05:05:51 AM »
found this dunno if you have seen it or not.... http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-385788.html

MrBump

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2009, 08:45:53 AM »
... an hot woman working in a music shop?!?!

... are you sure..?!?!
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martinw

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2009, 09:50:38 AM »
Possibly a variable resistor in series with one of the Phase Inverter anode resistors. It would allow adjustment of the PI outputs to allow you to balance them, or not if you prefer an imbalance.

Same idea as having 82k/100k anode resistors on Marshall's etc, but a bit more precise. It's not a new idea, and better suited to hifi/PA anyway. The Sai PA amp the sgmypod owns has this feature.

There's debate over whether a perfectly balanced PI is a good thing in a guitar amp. Most would say not, or at least thatbi doesn't make much difference.
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hunter

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2009, 03:31:20 PM »
no. i asked bogner about it and the reply was

DONT TOUCH THAT UNLESS YOU ARE A QUALIFIED TECH

but they didnt tell me its effect. lack of info. i dont actually find bogner support very good.

Call them. Thez are great on the phone, suck on email only.
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Dmoney

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2009, 03:35:51 PM »
thanks for the tip!
i'll give it a try!

Dmoney

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2009, 04:05:42 PM »
also, im sure my uber is more noisy today.... weird. hmmm

jpfamps

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Re: uberschall question... the mystery dial! Phase Symetry Adjust
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2009, 04:52:15 PM »
Possibly a variable resistor in series with one of the Phase Inverter anode resistors. It would allow adjustment of the PI outputs to allow you to balance them, or not if you prefer an imbalance.

Same idea as having 82k/100k anode resistors on Marshall's etc, but a bit more precise. It's not a new idea, and better suited to hifi/PA anyway. The Sai PA amp the sgmypod owns has this feature.

There's debate over whether a perfectly balanced PI is a good thing in a guitar amp. Most would say not, or at least thatbi doesn't make much difference.

I would concur.

I expect that it is a method of balancing the AC signal in a long-tail pair phase splitter.

This is hardly a new. The earliest schematic I've seen this feature on is the Harman Kardan Citation II from 1960! Not many guitar/ bass amps have this feature, although Ampeg used it in the SVT.

The jury is still out as to whether perfectly balanced AC drive to the power amp is of any benefit in a guitar bass amp, although my personal view is that it isn't, and that balance in most guitar amps is "good enough for rock and roll".

On a more practical note, pots/ variable resistors are relatively unreliable compared to fixed resistors, so unless there is a very good reason for using a pot here then you will ultimately be compromising the reliability of the amp.