Gear elements and order of impact on pure guitar tone?

[Tellboy]

I don't think there is a definitive answer - I think the  order might be different for different players and different styles.

I remember reading an article by a roady who was looking after the equipment at one of the old Policeman's Ball Amnesty Concerts (c.1981) where Clapton, Beck and (I think) Page all did guest spots using the same Fender amp. He said that they virtually left the controls on the same setting but they all sounded different and you could immediately identify which one was playing - which would suggest that maybe the amp should not be top of the list?

On the other hand a couple weeks ago there was John Mayalls 70th birthday concert on Sky where Mayall's guitarist, Buddy Whittington, was playing a Strat through a Dr.Z and Clapton was also playing a Strat through a Fender amp. Clapton sounded absolute s**t compared to Buddy Whittington - which would suggest that maybe the amp is important.

[Philly Q]

On the other hand a couple weeks ago there was John Mayalls 70th birthday concert on Sky where Mayall's guitarist, Buddy Whittington, was playing a Strat through a Dr.Z and Clapton was also playing a Strat through a Fender amp. Clapton sounded absolute s**t compared to Buddy Whittington - which would suggest that maybe the amp is important.

I think the Secret Policeman's Ball anecdote backs up the old principle of "it's the player, not the equipment".  Which I know is getting away from the original question at the top of the thread.

But on the same principle, maybe if they'd swapped amps Whittington would still sound great and Clapton would still sound shite? 

[jibidy]

I can see why you'd say that actually. But not many people listen to me play... :lol:

[Twinfan]

What Phil says is right - player is the most important.  We're talking about them out of the equation though, so to me it's amp next  :D

[jpfamps]

I remember reading an article by a roady who was looking after the equipment at one of the old Policeman's Ball Amnesty Concerts (c.1981) where Clapton, Beck and (I think) Page all did guest spots using the same Fender amp. He said that they virtually left the controls on the same setting but they all sounded different and you could immediately identify which one was playing - which would suggest that maybe the amp should not be top of the list?

But if they'd all used a cr@p they all would have sounded cr@p.

[Tellboy]

I remember reading an article by a roady who was looking after the equipment at one of the old Policeman's Ball Amnesty Concerts (c.1981) where Clapton, Beck and (I think) Page all did guest spots using the same Fender amp. He said that they virtually left the controls on the same setting but they all sounded different and you could immediately identify which one was playing - which would suggest that maybe the amp should not be top of the list?

But if they'd all used a cr@p they all would have sounded cr@p.

So are you saying anyone who played through that amp would sound good? You've only got to look on YouTube to see examples of people who have bought some amazing bootik amps/guitars who sound absolute s**t and no amount of amps, speakers, cabs, picks, magic fairy dust will change that. (unless they are prepared to practice)

P.S. That doesn't mean I would not like to get my hands on one of your custom amps - just under no illusions that it would suddenly transform me into a guitar god :lol: :lol:

[jpfamps]

I remember reading an article by a roady who was looking after the equipment at one of the old Policeman's Ball Amnesty Concerts (c.1981) where Clapton, Beck and (I think) Page all did guest spots using the same Fender amp. He said that they virtually left the controls on the same setting but they all sounded different and you could immediately identify which one was playing - which would suggest that maybe the amp should not be top of the list?

But if they'd all used a cr@p they all would have sounded cr@p.

So are you saying anyone who played through that amp would sound good? You've only got to look on YouTube to see examples of people who have bought some amazing bootik amps/guitars who sound absolute s**t and no amount of amps, speakers, cabs, picks, magic fairy dust will change that. (unless they are prepared to practice)

P.S. That doesn't mean I would not like to get my hands on one of your custom amps - just under no illusions that it would suddenly transform me into a guitar god :lol: :lol:

I think you have misunderstood me here — notwithstanding the title of this thread is "Gear elements and order of impact on pure guitar tone?".

Obviously no amount of gear will make a poor player sound great. Believe me I've heard some truly awful players make a terrible sound through good gear — I may even fall into that category myself. Note also I said good gear, NOT expensive gear.

Fender amps pre-1981 in good working order are great amps. When you have three great players playing through a great amp — as you had at the aforementioned gig — they will all sound great.

Conversely, if they had been playing through a terrible amp, they wouldn't have sounded as good. This is self evident.

In my experience if you have a poor amp, you won't get a good sound. Come and have a listen to the Sound City transistor practice combo in our workshop if you don't believe me.

The music equipment/ guitar industry relies on the fact that people keep buying new gear — as Andy who owns Angel Music said to me the other day "I can't understand how we can make living; surely there are enough guitars out there for everyone who wants one to have one?".

One way of getting people to buy new gear is to promote the idea that they need the latest guitar/ pedal/ amp etc to get a good tone.

All you really need is a decent guitar, decent amp and talent.

Sadly you can't buy the last item......

[Henk]

Since most of my gear just IS me and im still searching for the ultimate bridge pickup and drive pedal i would say....

1. Pedal
2. Bridge pickup

:roll:

[dave_mc]

What Phil says is right - player is the most important.  We're talking about them out of the equation though, so to me it's amp next  :D

yeah, agreed. if you ask me, the player is a given.

But if they'd all used a cr@p they all would have sounded cr@p.

So are you saying anyone who played through that amp would sound good? You've only got to look on YouTube to see examples of people who have bought some amazing bootik amps/guitars who sound absolute s**t and no amount of amps, speakers, cabs, picks, magic fairy dust will change that. (unless they are prepared to practice)

(I'm aware that he's already answered, and I agree with his reply- just adding this)

That's a false dilemma, though. Put the same player through good gear, and then through cr@ppy gear, and that player will sound and play better through the good gear. Neither the player nor the gear is exclusively responsible for the final tone.

Can a good player sound decent using pretty cr@ppy gear? Probably.

Will he/she enjoy using that cr@ppy gear? Probably not.

Will he/she sound (and play) better using good gear which he/she likes? Yes.

:)

[Tellboy]

All you really need is a decent guitar, decent amp and talent.

Sadly you can't buy the last item......

Yes - I completely agree - I just feel that some people put too much emphasis on the first two and not enough on the last. I would certainly have included myself in that category when I started playing. Having owned some very decent gear over the years ('60s Gibsons, Fenders, Marshall Plexis, Orange Matamp) I have come to the same conclusion as you - "Sadly you can't buy the last item.."

[JDC]

the players with cr@p finger tone who make any amp sound awful are probably thinking more about what they are playing rather than the sound they are making, so they don't know they sound cr@p :)

I remember playing my mates amp, he's only been playing for a year but I could hear some slight fizz, when I played I couldn't hear the fizz, but I was focused on the playing so I have no idea if my fingers "dialed" out the fizz or not

his cheap cable and pickups probably didn't help

[hunter]

I have to correct my statements here.

I think what has the biggest impact are actually (besides fingers/playing)

-Settings of the amp
-Setup of the guitar

I think these are the things that usually are wrong if a guitar player sounds bad on stage.

[Twinfan]

I still stand by the list I gave.  It's all about the amp/cab first, then the guitar...

[AndyR]

Not forgetting the strap of course  :D

(We were out starting the chrimbo shopping yesterday, and a nephew had made a request for a "cool (black leather) guitar strap..." ... how they hell we're gonna know what "cool" is to a 13 year old I dunno :lol: - he nearly got a pink fluffy one, it was still basically a leather strap, with a load of pink "fur" on it... but we decided not!)

[MDV]

I need to revise my list

Amp
Settings
Location/room etc
Pickups
Guitar
Speakers
Cab
Strings
Cables

I will change my mind again in 5..4...3..