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Author Topic: This restores my faith in the legal system  (Read 24909 times)

Lew

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2009, 05:26:32 PM »
I think it's really important to make the distinction between the police and the law makers. The police are following a set of policies made by law makers that they themselves may be just as frustrated about as we are.

Dmoney

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2009, 05:28:11 PM »
saying they are all crud is a generalisation. i have relatives that are ex merseyside police and i think they are idiots too.

EDIT: loosing some detail

Literally all my experiences with police have invloved CSO's or Police being intimidating or abusing powers for unjustifiable reasons.
so thats why i'm biased. I'm not that bothered if your folks are police and i agree they don't have an easy job. But if you can't handle a job, and you feel you want to bully members of the public that are causing no real problem, then you should get out.

There is a reason why people call them pigs.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 05:51:55 PM by Dmoney »

MDV

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2009, 05:49:31 PM »
And there are for more cases of poor policing than that.

But there are vastly more again of good policing. I've never personally seen police acting out of line. I have seen them being decent people, upholding the spirit of the law (as opposed to the letter of it) intelligently and ethically, and I've seen a few that are somewhat standoffish and confrontational, but thats a minority in my experience. Plus, good policing isnt news-worthy, its not gossip-worthy, its not the sort that people go blabbing about to their mates or on forums, and it is the kind that happens the vast majority of the time.

Lew makes an excellent point, as well. The police have to uphold the law; they dont write them. They are often, in fact, frustrated with them because they see how they can be misapplied and do more harm to the innocent (or just everyday people being people, like violence in self defence or too much violence out of fear or panic, for example). But they have to stick to the law; they're as constrained by it, moreso in fact, than we are.

Add to that, they are human, they arent infalliable, they arent perfect, there are good police and poor police officers. Pressure for more police and the unpopularity of the job exacerbates that (cant be too picky, training is sometimes rushed or even given by those not optimally qualified). They fall victim to one side of us and them psychologies (see zimbardo experiment for the sort of thing I mean; not police, but its applicable (insofar as its applicable to anything; its not terribly scientific, but it is ellucidating) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment ), they can get a little power drunk, they're susceptible to stress, fear, overreactions, error, they're flawed like the rest of us because they are us, they're people doing a job, with various degrees of competency. But they do a better job, I think, than you make out, and though flawed I'd much rather have them around, exactly as they are, than not.

Dmoney

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2009, 05:59:51 PM »
yeah i agree there is a need for them.

I see police doing nothing, which isnt good, or bad, but i mean im just speaking from personal experience.

maybe i live in the wrong part of london to expect to be treated well by local police or to see other people being treated well also.

I don't think the MET helps itself by trying to dismiss and cover up articles that come into the media.
and court cases like what we are disscussing cant help either. whether the outcome is legit or not.

its such i joke.
i used to live right opposite a police station in hackney, and RIGHT OUTSIDE ITS DOOR, my housemate at the time was punched in the face, and her bag was stolen. Even the CCTV outside the police station was useless. I had to go to hospital to pick her up. the Police didnt even give her a ride to the hospital (a 5min drive)




MDV

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2009, 06:07:20 PM »
Sounds like youre in a pretty rough area. That doesnt help - the police being human thing again. The us and them mentality strengthens and police in areas with higher crime rates that are up against it every day tend to be more automatically suspicious and harsher with criminals and suspects, because, well, wouldnt you be? You might like to think you wouldnt be, but realistically, for most people its inevitable - you spend all day in a high crime area looking for criminals and you start to see everyone as a potential criminal, and the harder the criminal you expect to find, or are afraid you'll find (or hope to find, in some cops cases) or are used to dealing with, the more harsh you'll be with suspects and in general. Thats not an excuse, no, but its an explanation, and its very hard to get past that when policing high crime areas.

MDV

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2009, 06:13:10 PM »
In summary: police are people too!

Dmoney

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2009, 07:17:12 PM »
i see your point.

i was about to say, you dont see rural police being the same. our local bobby back home used to ride a pushbike and he was about 50 years old. well, that was when i was 16. its changed now cos its got rougher back home.


MDV

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2009, 03:09:57 PM »
:drink:

Attitudes vary massively, and IMO the best police officers are ones that consider themselves part of and servants/assistants of the local community. Those guys rock.

Ian Price

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #68 on: July 28, 2009, 10:29:30 PM »
:drink:

Attitudes vary massively, and IMO the best police officers are ones that consider themselves part of and servants/assistants of the local community. Those guys rock.

One of my good friends is in the police. He's not on the beat anymore but one story he told me was that he once 'collared' a youngster who was generally causing trouble and breaking stuff. Rather than take him to the station he got his address and went to his parents house with him. He made him tell his parents what he had been up to and the kid basically broke down in tears and was genuinely sorry for what he had been up to and felt ashamed that he had let his family down. I hope the kid respected how the situation was handled as it could have been heavy handed. Not sure if he ever offended again though!


I think I hate being indecisive.

MDV

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #69 on: July 29, 2009, 12:22:00 PM »
'Sgood policing!

Theres a chap on here thats a copper round gateshead, I think (newcaslte area at least) that was saying a while ago that where the offending kids were on council estates, they werent pressing charges, but were going round to their houses and telling their parents "if you dont sort your kids out then youre getting evicted". Not an empty threat; they had an arrangement with the council. The crime rate plummeted. I strongly approve of this plan, and this policing!

Cant remember who that was....he was too overly keen on talking about his work anyway, so its probably best I dont remember :lol:

Disclaimer - details of this anecdote may be wrong; it was at least a year ago and I only read it once.

Dmoney

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2009, 12:38:19 PM »
:drink:

Attitudes vary massively, and IMO the best police officers are ones that consider themselves part of and servants/assistants of the local community. Those guys rock.

One of my good friends is in the police. He's not on the beat anymore but one story he told me was that he once 'collared' a youngster who was generally causing trouble and breaking stuff. Rather than take him to the station he got his address and went to his parents house with him. He made him tell his parents what he had been up to and the kid basically broke down in tears and was genuinely sorry for what he had been up to and felt ashamed that he had let his family down. I hope the kid respected how the situation was handled as it could have been heavy handed. Not sure if he ever offended again though!




If that happened around my old hometown then the parents would tell the police to get lost. haha. which i don't agree with. obviously it makes policing impossible. I remember some kids back home broke into a tip and pulled calor gas cans out of a cage (ones for camping stoves) and decided to play football with them. naturally one blew up and set fire to a kids legs, but his parents where just all like "my kid is as good as gold, how could this happen!". obviously your kid in an idiot who broke into somewhere he should be and then he was dumb enough to almost blow his legs off. good work!

so yeah. parents can suck. especially when they refuse to discipline kids themselves or let others do it (schools etc)

Roobubba

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #71 on: July 29, 2009, 01:31:01 PM »

But there are vastly more again of good policing. I've never personally seen police acting out of line. I have seen them being decent people, upholding the spirit of the law (as opposed to the letter of it) intelligently and ethically, and I've seen a few that are somewhat standoffish and confrontational, but thats a minority in my experience. Plus, good policing isnt news-worthy, its not gossip-worthy, its not the sort that people go blabbing about to their mates or on forums, and it is the kind that happens the vast majority of the time.


+1

In contrast, however, to 'Parking Attendants' or whatever they're called nowadays (Parking Revenue Creation Officers, maybe). I have yet to see one of those ****s wear a uniform with any pride. They have a laddish swagger (in *all* cases I have ever seen!!), which gives the air of "I don't give a cr@p about anybody, I'm here to stiff you over and make money. I love the POWAH!!"

I am now on a personal crusade against all parking officials. In fact, I absolutely must finish this letter to Camden council against their illegal theft of my hard-earned cash. Then if that fails, it's on to spurious claims that their legal department will have to investigate. I figure a few hours of a lawyer's time will ensure that they waste any money they made from me tenfold. I absolutely will not let them profit from me, and if I can't have it, they are sure as hell not going to have it.

Bitter? Not at all. :/

If they had reasonable signage in place, it would be a different matter; but as it is I would have had to have walked 1.4 miles to find the sign saying when I could/couldn't park. Acceptable? Reasonable? Clearly not. Letter of the law? Possibly... This attitude is what irks me most.

Anyway, the details of my case are inconsequential, I have yet to see a parking officer who looks as though they give one solitary shite about the society in which they live. This is in marked contrast to my experience with the police, who in my experience, have always been polite and genuine people. Sure, there are examples where this doesn't hold true, but MDV's argument that we don't hear about the good things - only the bad - is absolutely true. They have a LOT of cr@p to deal with on a day-to-day basis, and the vast majority of the time, they receive absolutely no thanks for the work they do.

Wow I wasn't expecting such a rant..

Roo

ToneMonkey

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #72 on: July 29, 2009, 02:04:43 PM »

If they had reasonable signage in place, it would be a different matter; but as it is I would have had to have walked 1.4 miles to find the sign saying when I could/couldn't park. Acceptable? Reasonable? Clearly not. Roo

You were in a car weren't you.  That's reasonable driving distance  :P  Just because you're too lazy to DRIVE to a sign.  :lol:
Advice worth what you just paid for it.

Roobubba

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #73 on: July 29, 2009, 02:46:40 PM »

If they had reasonable signage in place, it would be a different matter; but as it is I would have had to have walked 1.4 miles to find the sign saying when I could/couldn't park. Acceptable? Reasonable? Clearly not. Roo

You were in a car weren't you.  That's reasonable driving distance  :P  Just because you're too lazy to DRIVE to a sign.  :lol:

You cheeky scamp, you ;)

Roo

Dmoney

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Re: This restores my faith in the legal system
« Reply #74 on: July 29, 2009, 02:59:32 PM »
parking attendants do a great job. they make teh streets safer and they all play telecasters.