gibson help

[CJ]

i was just at my uncle's house today... he's going to help me with my Z in my avatar. anyway, he mentioned that he had an old SG that his 10 year old plays sometimes. its a really cool guitar, he said he bought it used in the mid-late 70's. i told him i'd try to find out the year for him. so i've been looking on gibson's website, and it appears their serial numbers are impossible to figure out. could anyone help me out? the number is 952656. based on what i found on the website, i think its between a '69 and '72, but i don't know.

thanks for any help.

pron! (all i had was my cell)

[murraymurray]

Did you check out this page?
http://www.gibson.com/Files/downloads/bluebook/GibsonSERIALNUMBERS.pdf
still pretty unclear.
looks like they started stamping "made in usa" in 1970, does it have that? if not then its probably a '68 otherwise it could be '70-'72
either way i wouldnt be wanting a 10 year old jamming out on it.

[Prawnik]

From the inlays, the pickup layout, and the double-white pickups, this looks like it might have been an SG Special at one time, with DiMarzio SD pickups and a different bridge added. I admit that I am not a huge expert on Norlin-era Gibsons, although I like them.

At any rate, rely on features not serial numbers to date a Gibson from that era.  I have a 1975 Les Paul Standard that, to go on serial numbers, must be a 1969.

[Tellboy]

I would guess it's a1968 model. Because it's got dot fretboard inlays and a short vibrola it probably is (was) an SG Special with two p90s originally installed - these have obviously been replaced. The serial number is more likely to be 1968 as between 1971-1973 they introduced the (exeptionally ugly IMO) type 3 SG with raised pickguard and (mostly) bigsby units (with square fretboard inlays on custom and standard instead of trapezoidal inlays)

[Tellboy]

You're quicker at typing than me Prawnik  :) :)

[AdamB]

Email Gibson and ask them, they're pretty quick at getting back to you :D

[Twinfan]

I'd go with the late 60s Special conversion theory too  :)

[Ratrod]

I think Tellboy is right.

I've seen similar SG's with that bridge and vibrato setup and they all had P90's.

[HTH AMPS]

another vote for the special-conversion, it has the old lyre tailpiece which only came on juniors and specials (afiak).

bet its still a lovely guitar though.

[Tellboy]

This is an original 1968 SG Special which was recently on German ebay with P90s and the short Vibrola bar still on. (Standard and Customs had a 'Lyre' engraved plate which covered the screws of the vibrola and ran back to the rear strapbutton) Control knobs look the same as yours so pretty sure its 1968. Like my 1964 Standard the top 'horn' on 60's SGs seem to be more pointed - some reissues seem to have a chisel point.

Also Juniors and Specials had the compensated bridge whilst Standards and Customs had Tunomatics.

either way i wouldnt be wanting a 10 year old jamming out on it.

Definitely, if it is anything like mine was you only got to sneeze and the neck joint breaks :( :(

[CJ]

thanks for all your help guys. now, i guess i should've mentioned earlier that it has Made in USA stamped on the back. so unless i'm missing something, i believe it must be a 70-72. the pickups as well as the tuners are unoriginal, and are the only unoriginal parts. you guys are probably correct in that it originally had p90s.

you guys have any clue what this could possibly be worth? he might change his mind about just leaving it around if its worth anything.

[Twinfan]

I would guess at around £800-£1000.  Someone should buy it and get it back to original spec, but remove the vibrola and just use a wrapover.

For £1200 or so you'd have a superb SG Special.

[Tellboy]

Looks like it must be either 1970 or early 1971 as they changed models that year.

You were lucky it is still around as The Who's Pete Townsend hated the new model so much he bought up all the older (pre 1971) models he could find (and break) before changing to Les Paul Deluxes  :D

[Prawnik]

I don't want to give figures, but honestly, the guitar is probably not worth that much.

SG Specials are not that rare or in high demand; this one has been routed, so it will never be worth what a stock example will go for, especially as there is no good way to restore it.

I restored a 1956 LP jr that some sushi-for-brains routed for humuckers and a tune-o-matic. Even with the finish shot by the best vintage Gibson specialists I could find (and I know a lot of them) it will never be worth anything like what a stock Junior will be.

I could sell it, but it would not fetch much, and I tell myself that if I do, I will probably never have another 1950's vintage Les Paul. In fact, if mine had not been molested, I would not have been able to afford it when I got it. ;)

So I suggest enjoying your guitar. That is what I do with my old Les Paul.

[HTH AMPS]

I don't want to give figures, but honestly, the guitar is probably not worth that much.

SG Specials are not that rare or in high demand; this one has been routed, so it will never be worth what a stock example will go for, especially as there is no good way to restore it.

I'd agree, a stock SG special of that era in the same condition would likely fetch £1200 (lets ignore Denmark Street pricing as thats not real world prices that anyone pays, unless they're just got a record-deal advance).

Since this SG special has been routed for humbuckers, had extra holes drilled for the additional vol/tone pots and also a pickup selector switch, I'd say it's worth £650-£800 and would be a nice players guitar.

The main 'issue' with some SG specials and juniors is the neck angle, or rather, the lack of neck angle.  This makes the action quite high and if you CAN get it low, theres not much downward pressure on the bridge.  The best way (imo) to set up a special with the compensated bridge is to use it as a wraparound bridge and remove the trem.  You get much better sustain that way - it was night and day on my old '67 SG jr.