Help!!!

[horsehead]

My employer hasn't paid me for last month & told me & other members of staff that we aren't in administration but he can't afford to pay us yet, he gave us £300 in cash & he told us that he'd get the remaining pay to us by the end of august at the latest. I've tried searching around on the internet & can't find much to help, myself & a colleague are going to the CAB tomorrow, but does anyone have any ideas of what we are entitled to. Do we have to work for him? Is he honour bound to pay us our wages ASAP? We haven't signed anything to say that we agree to the pay being drip-feed to us so I don't know where we stand & need help from you geniuses

[Elliot]

I am not an employment lawyer - but I can point you to section 13 and 23-24 of the Employment Rights Act 1996

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/ukpga_19960018_en_3#pt2-pb1-l1g13

In particular read Section 13(1) and 13(3) and Section 23(1), 23(2) and Section 24(1)

In essence it looks like you can go to the Employment Tribunal to get your money.

If it continues despite your complaints, it may also constitute an action in constructive dismissal.

[AndyR]

Ummm.... I have no proper legal knowledge about this at all, but I have been through some hairy moments involving redundancy and companies going down over the last 20 years or so.

My impression has always been that it is actually against the law to trade if you can't pay the salaries... as in a "shut the company down, employer prosecuted" type of "against the law".

I've been in companies where we shed people (including me) so we could keep trading legally, and also another where we all negotiated taking a drop in salary (instead of some of us losing our jobs) so that the company could continue...

I've never been in a position where the expected pay packet didn't show up.

If he ain't got the money to pay, he ain't got a business... if he gets wound-up, I think employees join the list of other creditors - not sure where they stand in the pecking order though...


Sorry to hear this Horsehead :(

EDIT: Just realised I hadn't said what I meant to say, and why I posted :roll: - based on my limited understanding, I'd want to check out what the position is with regard to him trading without being able to pay the salaries before I put any wheels in motion... my worry would be that all your jobs might be in jeopardy, and that if the company is not allowed to continue trading, then getting the back pay might be hard work if the money doesn't exist when it happens?

[38thBeatle]

I am sorry to learn of your situation. It may not be much consolation but a friend was in a similar situation and was told he'd not get outstanding pay but did get every penny in the end-took about 6 to 8 weeks. I think it would be worth grouping together with your former colleagues to share knowledge and, if it comes to it, legal expenses.

[dave_mc]

i have no idea, but i'm sorry to hear that. :(

[Andrew W]

I'm really sorry to hear that you're going through this.

I've been at a couple of companies that went down with all hands on deck.  The gist I got from dealing with administrators is that if the company goes down you won't see a penny of the wages you're owed.  Last time this happened to me I was owed two months salary and, seven years later, I haven't seen any money at all.  The reason is that the bank loan repayments and tax that the employer always appears to owe is paid first out of any liquidated assets, the staff come a long way down the list of creditors.

On the plus side I did once work at a studio where the situation you are now in came to pass and the owners did pull the fat out of the fire.  I guess it depends on how much you trust your boss.

[Matt77]

I'm a HR Adviser for my sins
I think the best thing you can do is to phone ACAS first thing in the morning:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2042

08457 47 47 47

they should be able to tell you where you stand

[ToneMonkey]

Got to agree with going to ACAS.  May also be worth getting an appointment with Citizens Advice and getting some solicited information.

[horsehead]

Went to the CAB this morning, didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. Called ACAS & they gave me some info, but it's getting dodgier &  dodgier! We're still not in administration, but I can't get in writing anything to confirm when I'm being paid. According to the consultant that they brought in they haven't broken anything because verbally I've agreed with them that they could pay weekly to the end of august they haven't done anything, the fact that they've not paid me at all means nothing apparently! I've also received a letter saying that I'm to attend an investigatory meeting tomorrow, but I can't get in writing exactly what it's about.

Fun, fun, fun!

[Plexi Ken]

A similar thing happened to my brother, payday was missed, excuses were give, "the companies not in trouble", "your jobs safe". A few weeks go by, the company goes bust and the administrators called in. He did eventually get the missing payment but it took a while  :?

Hope thing work out for you.

[ailean]

Limited knowledge here, but as I understand it they cannot withhold any pay unless you have agreed it, they can't even make a deduction from your wages as a re-imbursement (for instance I use the post at work for personal stuff, but they have to get my permission to make the deduction from my wages).

However, if you've verbally agreed then although a bit dicey they are ok, however, it's a verbal contract and if they have reneged on that agreement then they are in breach.

The awkward bit is that if you push the issue then you may force them into administration, and run the risk of not getting any money from the administrators anyway.

I'd be deeply suspicious of the 'we aren't going under' statement if they can't afford to pay the wage bill, ok, maybe someone else is holding out on them and it's drained the funds, but still, not a good sign. Start looking for a new job :(

[Prawnik]

If the management of the firm insists that everything is going to be OK, just a few cashflow issues, you can ask for the owner of the business to give a personal written guarantee of salaries.

Also, I do not know how it works in England, but if you have a company pension plan, make sure that those contributions are being and have been made on time and in full.

Employers in trouble (at least in the U.S.) are notorious for raiding money earmarked for plan contributions when the company faces cashflow problems.

[Elliot]

Did you actually verbally agree with them that they could pay weekly to the end of august?  Because your first post suggest that you never agreed, it was presented to you on a plate.  If you said yes, you have to wait until the end of August.

If you are still not paid or you made no such agreement, your recourse is to commence an action in the ET under s.13 Employment Rights Act 1996 as set out above.

If the company/employer does go down with no money, 8 weeks wages is a priority debt that has to be paid by the Administrator first before anyone else gets paid (even the tax man).  Further, if there is no money for 8 weeks pay, holiday pay, redundancy, the National Insurance fund pays it after you jump through various hoops - see Sections 182-190 of the Employment Rights Act 1996

[ailean]

Thanks for that info Elliot, I hope I never need it, but it's good to know!

[horsehead]

Thanks for the heads up Elliot, but it's all kicked off now, I was called to an investigatory meeting that turned into a disciplinary & at the end I was suspended on full pay ( if I get it!). I asked for an adjournment and was verbally abused as well as threatened. I'm now considering legal action.

Thanks for all your help guys