Gibson type vibrato/trems - how do they feel?

[AndyR]

I got a question about these boogers, arising from Hunter's "Maestro" thread, but I don't want to hijack it.

Philly helpfully posted a link to this little thing, I'll use it as an illustration:

http://www.allparts.uk.com/online-shop/allparts-guitar-amp-parts/bridges/guitar-bridges/tremolo-tailpieces/short-gibson-style-vibrato-w-arm-p-4183.html

The only trems I've ever used are strat-type trems with springs counter-balancing the strings. I'm not a dive-bomber, sometimes I like a bit of gentle Hank-ery, sometimes a bit more...

However, a strat-type trem has a problem with ordinary playing that is a show-stopper for me: when you set the trem floating, string bends and vibrato with the left hand tend to detune other strings... this is a real pain because I have to cut down my double-bends and finger vibrato that I'm rather fond of. It means I usually end up disabling the trem.

My question about the Gibson-type trems such as the one linked is: do they have the same problem? Looking at it, and thinking about how it's designed to work, I'm guessing that this effect could be minimal?

I've got footage of Allen Collins in Lynyrd Skynyrd using these on an Explorer in the kind of way that I envisage... and I've, er, got an Explorer... (partly because of this particular chap). I also notice that Angus Young's SGs often seem to have trems on - and I think (or suspect) that his style of playing would cause him trouble on a floating trem strat.

But it looks like holes need drilling to install one of these, and I don't fancy doing that as an "experiment" to see whether I like it :lol:

[Twinfan]

The trem problem you describe happens on all trems.

I have the Maestro vibrola on my 'DC gigging SG and while I do suffer from trem-itis to a certain extent, it's not actually that noticeable.  You need to try one out on a guitar and see if it suits you.

[hunter]

The trem problem you describe happens on all trems.

I have the Maestro vibrola on my 'DC gigging SG and while I do suffer from trem-itis to a certain extent, it's not actually that noticeable.  You need to try one out on a guitar and see if it suits you.

have you tried locking tuners to go with it? I have a set of these on my Gibbo LP Special and like them a lot: http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/product/Gotoh_Locking_3_Aside_Vintage_Style_Nickel_SD90-SLNMG

[Twinfan]

No need for locking tuners - the guitar has Grovers and it stays in tune just fine.

I don't find that locking tuners are any more stable than regular tuners and a well set up nut.  They're just a bit more convenient for string changes!

[AndyR]

The trem problem you describe happens on all trems.

I have the Maestro vibrola on my 'DC gigging SG and while I do suffer from trem-itis to a certain extent, it's not actually that noticeable.  You need to try one out on a guitar and see if it suits you.

I was thinking that even as I hit post!

I'm encouraged that you don't find it that noticeable, though...

have you tried locking tuners to go with it? I have a set of these on my Gibbo LP Special and like them a lot: http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/product/Gotoh_Locking_3_Aside_Vintage_Style_Nickel_SD90-SLNMG

Sorry, I wasn't too clear, Hunter - I've got no problem with the guitar's tuning going, it's the flattening of other strings while I bend one or two, they always return to pitch when I finish the bend :D

[Rob Stobbs]

Speaking as a Vibrola Fan, I have never had the same degree of "Flattening" when using a Vibrola as opposed to a Strat style trem. That said, a Vibrola is a very different beastie. Think of it in the same way that you would a Bigsby, it was designed to produce a shimmer, nothing more. OK there are those whom have used them more violently, but in the main they have paid the price with their Tuning.

A Vibrola, when set up correctly, is a great feature for embellishing chord work and can also be used sparingly for lead runs, but the "trick" lies in the actual Set Up.

One further note, a very good friend got a Vibrola style trem from AllParts. It was actually unusable. The Bent Plate that actually makes the Trem work was too shallow, so the Arm was touching the Scratchplate. This is not an easy thing to cure because we are talking about a piece of Steel that is chromed. Any attempt to increase the curvature will result in damage to the chrome and little else. Just a word or warning.

[AndyR]

Thanks for that Rob - encourages me further, but point taken about the set up issues... :D

[Philly Q]

One further note, a very good friend got a Vibrola style trem from AllParts. It was actually unusable. The Bent Plate that actually makes the Trem work was too shallow, so the Arm was touching the Scratchplate. This is not an easy thing to cure because we are talking about a piece of Steel that is chromed. Any attempt to increase the curvature will result in damage to the chrome and little else. Just a word or warning.

Thanks for that info - the Allparts unit isn't too great then!

Andy, you've probably seen them before but there are a few different trem systems for Gibson-style guitars which don't require permanent modification of the body:

The Stetsbar

The Les Trem (I've always thought it sounds like something Ellen DeGeneres might have a use for.... )

And I really like the look of this one Ratrod posted - would look great on my LP Special but I fear the neck angle may be too shallow:

The Vibramate (also sounds a bit Ann Summers, come to think of it...  :? )

[Rob Stobbs]

Ahhhhhhh.... The Vibramate. Now, of this, I have first hand experience. It is a very nice unit, requires minimal fiddling about with and works very well out of the box. A chum fitted one to his Explorer and it worked rather well and actually looked rather nice too..... always a bonus!

[AndyR]

You're a star Philly! :D

On a brief scan, I'm liking the look of the Vibramate as well - one would need to buy the Bigsby B5 as well?

Ah Rob, you've posted as well... (Can't see the pic here at work though) nice one.

I'm feeling rumblings in the lower bowel (GAS :lol:)

[Rob Stobbs]

Tell you one thing though?
I saw something last year that looked "just SO wrong" that it actually began to grow on me!! :D

Imagine an Ebony Les Paul Standard?  Got that? :D

NOW...... Add a Full Length Lyre Vibrola!  I kid you not! 8) IF I can get a shot of it I'll post it here.

[Philly Q]

Ahhhhhhh.... The Vibramate. Now, of this, I have first hand experience. It is a very nice unit, requires minimal fiddling about with and works very well out of the box. A chum fitted one to his Explorer and it worked rather well and actually looked rather nice too..... always a bonus!

Good man!  That looks, er, wicked.... as the under-40s might say.  Splendid!  :)

Would you say it gives enough string angle behind the bridge to work with a low-sitting tune-o-matic?


(Andy: Yes, you need to buy the Bigsby separately.   I think I read that it works with licensed Bigsby copies as well, although the website says it was only esigned to work with the original B5.)

[AndyR]

So I've been checking it out a bit further, and it looks to me like:

A) The Bigsby B5 is designed for flat-tops like an SG or Explorer, for example, and is usually screwed into the body, requiring hard to reverse mods...

B) The Vibramate is designed to alleviate the mods problem (uses the existing stop-bar studs)...

C) The extra thickness of the Vibramate raises the B5 off the body a bit, and that's why you're worried about fret angle Philly...

... is that about right?

[Philly Q]

Yes to all three!  :D

Despite my slight worry (point C) I am getting serious Vibramate GAS the more I look at it.  Could always find something else to fit it to.....

[Ratrod]

My favorite vibrato is the Bigsby. Easy to setup, more tuning stability than a floating fulcrum. Not as stable as a locking Floyd and doesn't have much range but there's something magical about the tone.

The vibramate is a great piece of kit. Just bolt on and completely reversable. You can save some money by going for a B50 instead of a B5. The B5 is the US made sandcasting model. Very much a old skool look and feel. The B5 is a modern cast Eastern made model.