Spanish Cedar VS Mahogany

[mikey5]

I am starting to look into materials for my first couple of guitar projects. I probably should start with pine or something (cause my first guitar will most likely be cr@p) I of course hope that if I really am careful I will come up with something decent.
but I figured that I would throw this out there for you all seeing as I am curious about it.

I found this interesting. I dont know what you guys think. I am a pretty hardcore fan of mahogany maple, but you guys tell me what you think
This clip below shows this fellow making a les paul style guitar with birch and spanish cedar


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBRIByvwogY&feature=related

[ericsabbath]

cedar sounds very different from mahogany, imo
but it does have a good sustaining middy tone

[gwEm]

cedar sounds very different from mahogany, imo
but it does have a good sustaining middy tone

+1

it cuts well in the mids

[WezV]

spanish cedar (cedrela) is not really a cedar, its a tradename for a wood that is part of the mahogany family

similar to mahogany and a good choice for guitars that we are going to see more of.  infact it tends to be quite light and airy like good mahogany should be, a little more middy than bassy but a good choice

the wrong decision would be to walk down to B&Q and buy pine thinking your first guitar project deserves no better

good pine can work for guitars as has been proven.  cheap fast grown pine never will.  dont start with shite ingredients, all you will get is shite cake

[ericsabbath]

spanish cedar (cedrela) is not really a cedar, its a tradename for a wood that is part of the mahogany family

similar to mahogany and a good choice for guitars that we are going to see more of.  infact it tends to be quite light and airy like good mahogany should be, a little more middy than bassy but a good choice

spanish cedar is just as cedar as the other species
all cedrela are in the meliaceae family (also called "mahogany family")
I don't think the spanish cedar (actually mexican cedar) might sound so different than the brazilian
this same species (cedrela odorata) exists here in brazil too and it's used by several brands and luthiers
it's called cedro rosa or cedro vermelho here
I had an early 90's Fender Southern Cross series Jazz Bass (Southern Cross was the brazilian Squier series, but with Fender logo) with a spanish cedar body
I traded a zoom 707 fx unit for it
best and most resonant 4 string bass I ever played! and this is coming from a Fender hater! :lol:
the resonance is similar to a good piece of alder, but very middy instead of scooped

[ericsabbath]

some cedro rosa guitar videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx4xpRWdh90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-cl7rNSqbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anh9KHkj0Ns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6eN8z4ygt8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evZ7pC7IKqg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7tqCqNDwkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWO-y2-dmqE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a5cr4fpxxs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEhq7WRXKkg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMDB0p-Yjbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bOHxMAk1ig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjvBz5bFvvE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmlaCJJD7Q0

cr@ppy quality videos, but enough to notice that it doesn't sound like alder, ash, mahogany, basswood or any other famous tone wood
it's brighter, more middy and less thick sounding than mahogany

[WezV]

spanish cedar is just as cedar as the other species
all cedrela are in the meliaceae family (also called "mahogany family")

cedar (Cedrus) is a conifer from the Pinaceae family

as i said above, spanish cedar is a completely different type of tree (cedrela). all cedrela are in the meliaceae family (mahogany), so cedrela's are not true cedars


spanish cedar is not just as cedar as the other species.  Its an accepted trade name for a mahogany like wood that is neither a cedar or spanish.  Cedro rosa is another trade name for cedrela.  trade names and wood types do vary around the world and between wood yards.

[ericsabbath]

spanish cedar is just as cedar as the other species
all cedrela are in the meliaceae family (also called "mahogany family")

cedar (Cedrus) is a conifer from the Pinaceae family

as i said above, spanish cedar is a completely different type of tree (cedrela). all cedrela are in the meliaceae family (mahogany), so cedrela's are not true cedars


spanish cedar is not just as cedar as the other species.  Its an accepted trade name for a mahogany like wood that is neither a cedar or spanish.  Cedro rosa is another trade name for cedrela.  trade names and wood types do vary around the world and between wood yards.

the pinus cedar is usually called pinus here, not cedar
there is also cedrinho, that may refer to cedrela fissilis and to some Cupressaceae species
some amateurs use pinus or cedrinho, but they're not even appropriate for guitars
90% of the luthiers and big brands here use cedro rosa (spanish cedar) or marupá for the cheaper models (similar to pinus, very fragile, susceptible to damages, very poor sustain and sounds like shiteeee)
you'll rarely see a guitar made of pinus and being called cedar

[WezV]

i thought it might be international confusion with the different names used around the world

the problem occurs when newby builders in the uk see spanish cedar being used and only pick up on the cedar word - go to a wood yard in the country and ask for cedar and you will be led to the wrong sort unless you specifically say spanish cedar.

i think we agree that whatever you want to call it, cedrela/spanish cedar is a perfectly good guitar building wood and a nice, middy substitute for mahogany

now go to australia and start asking for oak or ash, the first settlers there named all the native trees after the english trees they resembled so it can get a bit confusing.  not even the same species or the same wood characteristics, and the trees dont always look that similar either :?

[Sifu Ben]

They did the same with fish. They call grouper "cod", for no discernable reason (except maybe that they're both large edible fish) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_grouper

[mikey5]

Man you guys are awesome with your wood knowledge. Here in Mexico cedar is abundant. Should I look around here?

[Will]

Man you guys are awesome with your wood knowledge. Here in Mexico cedar is abundant. Should I look around here?

Mikey, I think you may be missing the point, I think Wez is saying that Spanish cedar is not to be confused with general cedar?

[ericsabbath]

most of the spanish cedar is extracted from mexico, anyway
it can't be that hard to find
it's VERY common here in brazil and that's why it's the most used wood for guitars here
good "honduras" mahogany is easy to find here to too, but WAY more expensive

[mikey5]

Mikey, I think you may be missing the point, I think Wez is saying that Spanish cedar is not to be confused with general cedar?
[/quote]



No I dont think so these guys are talking Cedra Rosa (cedrela) right?? Well here in guadalajara we have an excellent selection. Is that what I should look for wood experts(Wez-Eric??

[Zaned]

There's a company called Ruokangas Guitars here in Finland http://www.ruokangas.com/. Excellent guitars, top notch quality.

Anyway, they use spanish cedar for their Duke model, which is going after an OLD les paul tone. The main man Juha Ruokangas has said that spanish cedar was the closest in sound to old mahogany that he found. It's also lighter, as like old LPs are.

-Zaned