Single coils set for an all-maple strat-like japanese Vox ?

[BigB]

Hi all

Ok, now I've heard what well-chosen BKP pups can do of a decent guitar (the crawlers on my Vox Custom 24 are, well,   perfect), I'm sold - I want more BKPs !-)

So, I have this other '81 japanese (Matsumoku) Vox, the Standard 25. It's a strat-like, but with a thicker and stubbier  maple body (yes, very heavy - about 11lbs  :roll:),  bolt-on maple neck, and maple fingerboard too. It's equipped with a vintage style strat trem bridge, 3 Dimarzio FS1 wired the standard 1 vol / 2 tones / 5-ways switch strat way.

The FS-1 are not as bad as the X2Ns were on the Custom 24 - to be true, they even have something IMHO,  definitly stratty but with a bit more meat and balls, which I like - but they're clearly lacking when it comes to, well, that kind of "quality without a name" that the crawlers have - organic, air, life, soul, mojo, chime, focus, 3D, you name it...

Unplugged, the guitar is very resonant, tight lows - perhaps not as tight as the Custom 24 -, ringing mids, and overall very bright - as one can imagine. It has very snappy attacks, lots of bite, and pretty good sustain. Sings well too, very nice guitar for blues stuff, ok for 50's/early 60's classic rock, perhaps a bit lacking in the low-mids / lows for heavier rock riffs.

As as I said, the FS-1 are not that bad a choice for this guitar - they seem to tame it's bightness a bit and add something in the mid range -  but they are lifeless (soul-less ?), and the bridge pup is so ear-piercing that it's barely usable by itself. So I'd like to keep that "meatier strat" options but with more life, more air, more wood, eventually a bit more muscles in the low-ends department - and if possible a usable bridge pup !-)

After reading here and there, I ruled out the Apache and Sultans which I think wouldn't fit my taste and playing - I'm more into blues, rock and heavy rock -, and the IT which might be too bright for this already bright guitar. I don't think I'd go for the contemporary models neither as I do like a bit of a vintage touch (without being vintage-fanatic neither - the crawlers have just the vintage / modern balance I like).

So, I was thinking of a slowhands set - seems to be close to the FS-1 (at least wrt/ more 'standard' strat pups) - with a zinc plated steel base for the bridge of course... But I could (re)considerer other options !-)

Opinons, gentlemen ?

[AndyR]

I've only experienced ITs, but from reading on the forum, as I was scanning down through your post I was thinking slowhands, slowhands...

Looks like you've reached the same conclusion :D

[Mr. Air]

I'd suggest slowhands as well even though, like Andy, I have never played them. But with the contemporary pickups ruled out and the Irish Tours being too bright well slowhands are what's left  :D

[gordiji]

big b,i had a strat plus with lace sensor golds which are very bright,maple neck and a engl screamer 50 1X12 combo
      which is famously bright .all in all too bright not because of the brightness per say but the unwelcome harshness that came along for the ride.After reading pup reviews on' harmony central' i got a loaded pick guard with irish tours.
They've had a good spanking this last month and are astonishingly good.If you have a good tube amp(like mine)treble can be eq'ed out.Point i'm making is my bright sounding set up now sounds as good as anything i've ever heard.As a clean strat its great, even for hot country which i love, the bridge can nail a good tele sound.....but when you start to drive the front end of your amp, my word it gets very good.A strat with bollocks.All of those great ritchie blackmore tones are there without a 200watt modded stack.SRV no probs, I don't even have heavy strings (10,s).All
that lovely 'zing' in the bottom wound strings perfectly defined and not possible with a humbucker.
Its all subjective but this is the best sound i've ever had. I've been playing about 30yrs.

[BigB]

I've only experienced ITs

But with the contemporary pickups ruled out and the Irish Tours being too bright well slowhands are what's left  :D

Well... Gordiji's post seems to confirm ITs are indeed really bright - but he doesn't think that's a problem... The whole point is that I ruled out some options based mostly on assumptions, not direct experience (OTHO, I don't have enough money to try out each option !-).  Hence my request for opinions - which includes opinions on the models I ruled out 

So, AndyR, how would you describe ITs, and how do you think they could sound on a bright&tight guitar ?

Also, I didn't mention them, but there's also the MMs... More 'traditional' strat sound if I correctly understood posts here and there ? Anyone on this ?

wrt/ the "contemporary" models, it's a fact that I'm definitively not into that hi-gain / shredding / velocity-demo stuff at all. But mostly, I fear losing this vintage touch I love so much. But here again, it's mostly based on assumptions that may be wrong... I should perhaps find out more about these models ?

[BigB]

big b,i had a strat plus with lace sensor golds which are very bright,maple neck and a engl screamer 50 1X12 combo
      which is famously bright .all in all too bright not because of the brightness per say but the unwelcome harshness that came along for the ride.

Yeps, I've had somehow similar experience with the X2Ns on the Vox Custom 24 played on a Marshall jcm 900 - way too harsh. Now I've replaced the X2Ns with Crawlers, I can get quite smooth sounds out of the same amp - and even use the treble and presence pots !-)

After reading pup reviews on' harmony central' i got a loaded pick guard with irish tours.
They've had a good spanking this last month and are astonishingly good.If you have a good tube amp(like mine)treble can be eq'ed out.

Well, Marshall are (in)famous for their totally inefficiant EQ !-)

More seriously, I'm selling the Marshall and will get a small vintage style EL84 combo instead - not decided which one yet, but probably either a Peavey Classic 30 or a H&K Statesman Dual, which both are warmer and less agressive than the jcm 900, and have a way more efficiant EQ. But anyway, I'd prefer to not have to eq out too much highs - from experience, I think it's better to get a good balance right from the source.

But thanks for your answer and testimony anyway - I should perhaps give ITs a second look aftrer all.

[BigB]

Ok, I did a bit more search and  found this :

One other thing, will the IT in the neck position give a warm smooth tone, or a harder edged tone (compared to stock pickups)? Thanks for all the advice, v. helpfull so far. :D

Harder edged IMO - the IT neck is quite bright & has a sort of "snap" to the notes when you first sound them.  That's not to say it's harsh, just that words like "sizzle" "snap" "pop" & "jangle" spring to mind.  If you want warm/smooth in a neck single coil then look no further than the Slowhand...

and this

"a very warm sound (especially from the neck single coil)...so a classic clean and warm strat neck and middle pickup - a reasonable trade off between clean and gain"

Almost perfectly describes the Slowhand.  IMHO you should get them with the zinc baseplate option - it seems to beef up the output just enough to balance it with a humbucker.  Without the baseplate the Slowhand is a lot lower output than I expected with a very "rounded" top end.

The Irish Tours are very bright & quite pokey.  Notes have a real "pop" when first sounded & it has a real "sizzle" on the clean & crunch channel.  The Trilogy is a fair bit more powerful with slightly less brightness & more low end.

So it seems that I was right to be afraid of ITs being really on the bright side. But now I wonder if the slowhands wouldn't be too rounded  :? OTHO, on the slowhands clips I heard they still sounded quite stratty, so I'm possibly worrying too much here...

Also, I should perhaps consider Trilogy too - "balanced power with a big bottom end, subtle midrange and no loss of definition" for a guitar with tight lows might fit, and while I want to retain that stratty sound, I'd still like it with a bit more meat and balls.

Well, I guess I'm looking for some Crawler-equilavent-for-a-strat set - I mean, something that's to vintage strat pups what the Crawlers are to PAFs-like buckers : warm yet bity enough, a bit (but not too much) hotter, but with still that vintage touch, and well fitted for anything from blues (and even a bit in the eraly dire strait territory in this case) to funky chunk to more thick&heavy (but not metal) 70's / early 80's rock. FWIW, I'd like to have something well enough balanced with how my Custom 24 now sound (mostly on the thick-maple-top LP side but brighter and tighter) so I can switch guitar from song to song without having to drastically mess up my amp / pedals settings - while still retaining each guitar's personality.

[gordiji]

big b, I wasn't saying the IT's were bright but my set up before i bought them was(with the old lace sensors)
Point is i still have a bright guitar(like you) AND a bright amp but with the IT's it is superb. The position two is beautiful and the neck alone can be described as 'well defined' rather rather than hard. This is needed live if you are to come through the mix.I wish I could do some good recordings cause when I was looking I thought there was a lack of soundclips available on these pups. Another thing , I used to have one of the first levinson strats which sounded beautiful in the house but was woolly and drab live, and a G&L tele that was a bit harsh in the house but came alive live.(also met another guy on a gig who'd found exactly the same thing).
Now where we........ I don't know the other bkp pups but don't be frightened of these being harsh or too bright. If you want a hotish strat i really can't see how these could dissapoint .     
My wife thinks i love them more than her............sshhh

[FernandoDuarte]

But now I wonder if the slowhands wouldn't be too rounded  :? OTHO, on the slowhands clips I heard they still sounded quite stratty, so I'm possibly worrying too much here...

Sorry I didn't read these 3 Bibles post, but hey this is a ALL MAPLE GUITAR, don't think ANY pickup will sound too rounded :)
I was thinking Slowhand too, but I never played any of them, so said nothing

[BigB]

big b, I wasn't saying the IT's were bright but my set up before i bought them was(with the old lace sensors). Point is i still have a bright guitar(like you) AND a bright amp but with the IT's it is superb

Err, seems I misunderstood you - sorry  :oops: Thanks for the correction.

I found a couple ITs clips, and while they are obviously on the bright side (which is what one would expect given their name and description), they didn't seemed harsh in any way. FWIW, on the (very helpful) apaches/MMs/ITs comparison posted by Haydn (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1625.msg19384#msg19384), I prefered MMs on the clean sounds, and ITs on both the slight crunch and heavy crunch sounds (with still a mention for the trilogy bridge on heavy crunch).

Too bad the guy didn't have a SH set too 

Now I don't know what his guitar is (woods...) nor how it sounds unplugged, but mine -  unplugged, I mean - already has this snap&sizzle of the ITs on the slight crunch clip, so I'm a bit worried it would be just too much  :?

Still, thanks for sharing your experience - looks ITs are back on my options list (heck, I thought I had a good reason to rule them out... ).

(snip the remaining - agree on the "cut thru the mix" part, but this has never been a problem for so far, quite on the contrary)

[BigB]

Sorry I didn't read these 3 Bibles post,

Sorry, I tend to be a bit verbose  :?

but hey this is a ALL MAPLE GUITAR, don't think ANY pickup will sound too rounded :)

 :mrgreen: