Is £2000 for an amp "painfully expensive"?

[Twinfan]

I'm interested in the general opinion on this one.

I've just been reading this month's Guitarist magazine where they review the new Rivera Venus 5 1x12 combo.  Spec is as follows:

* 50w 1x12 combo
* Two channels
* Extra boost on the Lead channel
* Reverb
* Effects loop
* Half power switch
* Top quality PCB constuction
* Top spec components throughout
* USA built
* £2124

Nick Guppy describes the amp as "painfully expensive" in the write up.  Now to me, £2000 for a high spec amp from a volume manufacturer that has to comply with EC regulations and run a factory blah-de-blah doesn't sound to me to be unreasonable.  It's built in the US too where labour rates are higher than in the Far East, and you've got the complete gig package as it's a combo - no need to buy cabs for a head etc and it's loud enough at 50w.

Is it just me that thinks that's a pretty good price for a serious pro-level piece of amplification for a session guy or regular gigger who cares about his tone?

Compare it to the Larry Amps head that Hunter mentioned in another thread that was £5000 for the head only - you'd still needed to buy a cab.  That, to me, is "painfully expensive".  The Rivera seems pretty good value to me.

Or have I lost all sense of worth and £2000 is a horrendous amount???

[Sifu Ben]

You're making a value judgement that "expensive" = "overpiced", whereas it just means "not cheap". Indeed, the 3 sentences afterwards all strongly recommend it.
£2000 IS expensive for a 50w 2X12, but that doesn't mean it's not worth it, it just means it's beyond the spending power of most players.

[Twinfan]

Good points.  While I don't deny it's not cheap, it's the "painfully" bit I'm mostly referring to.

Is £2000 really out of the reach of most players?  Or do people just not want to spend that much on an amp?

[martinw]

It's a fair price for a high quality product. To me that precludes the use of the word "painful".

We're so used to paying peanuts now, for cheaply made cr@p, that when you're faced with paying the right price for something, it seems expensive by comparison.

If we would all learn to buy less, and pay more for it, and then look after, service and repair our high quality, expensive equipment, and stop shipping container loads of junk half way round the world, we'd all be a lot happier.

[Ian Price]

Is £2000 really out of the reach of most players?  Or do people just not want to spend that much on an amp?

I would think the latter, it was certainly true for me before I really got into guitars, amps etc. My progression from cheaply made guitars to expensive models was very quick. The amp part took a lot longer to reach that level!

[Sifu Ben]

TBF though, this is a fairly "boutique" bit of equipment, so by definition out of the range of most players.

[Twinfan]

Is it out of the range of most players though?  That's what I'm asking.  I've been to pub gigs where I've seen Mesa Rectifier half stacks, two Gibson LP Customs etc.  Plus there are plenty of folks with multiple guitar/amp collections.

I think there are a couple of reasons:

1)  Guitars are 'sexier'.  We attach ourselves to them more and are happy to pay big money for the right one
2)  You can buy a £200 transistor half stack and people think a combo at 10 times the price is mental.  The £200er sounds a bit pants, but people think the tone is only in the guitar and revert to point 1)........

[Spitfire]

that is true... £2000 isnt the end of the world...  but some of the best live tones ive heard have been from very low end amps.

I heard a  guitarist use a Laney hybrid stack, think its the TI300 or something, which had brilliant clean and distorted tones... Im not saying the amp doesnt matter, but i dont think many people get the most out of what they use.  People are too egar to replace rather than push to get the most out of what they have... which i think gets the more unique individual tones, its easy to buy a tone.

[Sifu Ben]

You're viewing the world from your own perspective, and you are the target market for this product. Most players do not play regular payed gigs. Of those who do, most will not have a Triple rectifier (I mean for starters, WAY overkill for a pub gig) and most will not have a pair of LP customs. Most will have a well worn LP standard or studio, a USA standard strat and a mexican tele and a marshall halfstack (if they're in a rock covers band). People in most original material bands will probably have a couple of upper end MIK/ lower end MIJ guitars, or 1 Gibson/PRS and an MIK backup.
 Of those who don't: Do I have the money in the bank to walk out the door and come home with an LP standard? Yes. Are there other things I should probably spend the money on? Most definitely. Therefore, would it be a painful amount to spend on a non essential item? Yes.

[Twinfan]

Great points from you Ben, and from Spitfire too.  I guess it's all down to our own particular tone hunts, and how:

1) bothered we are about 'our perfect tone' in the first place
2) much available cash we have
3) we prioritise guitar gear over anything else - family, drugs, beer, cars, loose women, charity, poker, etc etc

[jpfamps]

On the rare occasions I pickup Guitarist magazine their seem to be plenty of guitars over £2000 reviewed, none of which ever seem to be described as "painfully expensive".

[MDV]

Consider where youre asking this question as well

We're pretty much the GAS elite round here, and BK board members here are probably divided into two goups - those that already have paid ~£2000 for an amp and those that will when they can. Outside these forum walls there are still plenty of GASers that would pay, but the proportion of guitarists that would look at that and reject it out of hand or see as for people with more money than sense is probable far higher.

To me the question of what it is youre paying for has NOTHING to do with the spec - it has everything to do with the sound/s you can get with it. Whats inside the box is nothing but a means to that end. If it ticked my boxes on that front I would buy it (as I have with a head and cab of much the same price already, and likely will again at some point).

Whether its out of reach for most guitarists is up to the guitarist and what disposable income they have. We arent in any position to assess that from here and its up to each individual that fanices such a bit of kit to figure that out for themselves.

[FELINEGUITARS]

Guitarist do review a lot of amps in the high price bracket and many of us read it to lust after the nice gear.

I remember the reviews of the Randall Modular amps and they winced at the price (and the weight of the combo)
They were in the £2000 league
Like with posh cars it is true that for slight increments in quality past a certain point you pay heavily
But it is the same with guitars too - you can get a great playing LP copy from the far east for under £700 but to go to one made in the USA or UK/ Europe you will pay more heavily.
Go to a custom shop and the prices will seem even steeper, but usually the feel and the attention to detail or the fact that you are able to specify  many aspects of it are what justify the expense to the purchaser.

I like Rivera stuff - it is well made stuff with a good tone

But we are lucky to have some great boutique makers here in the Uk
I have already used MJW and HTH for stuff and been really happy
(just got the HTH today - full report and clips to follow when I get a minute)

[Denim n Leather]

Like with posh cars it is true that for slight increments in quality past a certain point you pay heavily
But it is the same with guitars too -

What you are referring to is called the point of diminishing returns -- maximum increase in money for minimal increases in performance. It occurs in any market where things are manufactured.

[Lew]

Good points.  While I don't deny it's not cheap, it's the "painfully" bit I'm mostly referring to.

Is £2000 really out of the reach of most players?  Or do people just not want to spend that much on an amp?

Yes, £2000 really is out of the reach for most players when it comes to an amp. If you think otherwise you've been hanging around elite forums and high end guitarshops too long  :lol: :P
But yea, for me, the cost is only relative to the item and not unto it's self.