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Author Topic: Custom vs. High-end production guitars  (Read 14832 times)

roland_rat

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2009, 07:06:33 PM »
Hi,

I think im right in quoting that Johnathan at Feline always says that last little bit of quality always cost quite a bit.  I think that is very true for both amps and guitars. I also think it is true for the big manufacturers and the small ones.
I got two Felines. They were in his sale so were not made specially for me.  They were however at a similar price to a Fender strat standard.  Both of the guitars are much much better than the Strats I looked at. They are great! Being left handed I have not been able to try much left handed high end guitars out.  For me custom is the way to go being left handed becauce the chances are I can not try before I buy (in most cases).
If I was a right hander I am not sure if I would buy off the shelf or from somewhere like Feline, legra etc.  What I would say is if you are looking at say a gibson les paul I would take a good look at the small guitar makers as I beleive you will get a great guitar at a considerably cheeper price. 
Im not sure where you live in the country you  are but  Feline as got a number of guitars made form when he did the guitar shows. I guess if you went for a pack of strings  you would be able to take a look and maybe try one or two out to give you a idea of how the quality stacks up against cost.





Mules/SM,RR,YB, boss/ IT, VHII,   VHII & Mothers Milk, Abraxus, SM/aphache, sultans

dave_mc

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2009, 09:07:03 PM »
yo sam! :)

I think dave and mark nailed it already with their posts on the first page (I haven't read past the first page yet).

There are pros and cons for going custom- main cons being you're not 100% sure how it'll turn out, plus actually figuring out a spec (and then not changing your mind!) is difficult. Also the wait. But the advantage is that you get exactly what you want, and often for quite a bit less than off-the-shelf models. You definitely don't want to order a custom build without doing a lot of research yourself first, hit the internet to find out what different types of neck profiles etc. the guitars your local shop has in stock have, then hit all your local shops to try everything they have.

I've tried a couple of off-the-shelf models which were, as objectively as possible, as nice as my legra- a tyler superstrat, and a nik huber. But they were quite a bit more expensive (almost twice as much, in the case of the huber, and not much less in the case of the tyler, and it's worth pointing out that my legra would have been a lot cheaper had it been a bolt-on superstrat like the tyler). And weren't exactly set out the way I'd want them etc. Regarding Vigiers, I've really liked the ones I've tried, but there's too much on them that I'd change (main one being the nut width, which is virtually impossible to change), and they're not cheap enough to make that worthwhile. I also don't think they're just as nice as things like tylers, though they are extremely nice.

Personally, I make the decision based on cost and how much I'd change. If there's an off-the-shelf model which is exactly what I want (bar a pickup swap), and it's a bit cheaper than a custom would be, I'd probably go with it because I wouldn't have to wait for several months. I have a couple of patrick eggles and a JJ, all of which I got for £500 or less (each- not altogether :lol: ), and personally I like them as much as the PRSes I've tried, if not more (with a pickup swap, anyway). However, I haven't tried the really high-end PRSes like Dave has (but then they're even more again, and the PRSes I have tried have been up to about £3k).

of course, it's very, very hard to compare like with like because my Legra is a metal/shred-orientated V, while all these other guitars I've tried have been more classic guitars (bar the vigiers).

EDIT: regarding value, UK-made stuff is generally a lot cheaper than US-made stuff. European-made stuff is normally a bit cheaper than US-made stuff, too. And Japanese stuff can be good value, though the mid-range japanese stuff is generally the best bang-for-buck.

Having an early  Patrick Eggle Berlin, I would say to have a go on one of them too........ and then you could still afford to go on holiday  :lol:

yeah, eggles are great. the older ones, especially, before they became tiggles. I have a tiggle and it's great (I also have an older one), but the QC isn't meant to be so good. That would be a very good call, actually, you can get an old s/h Eggle starting around the £300 for a basic new york style one, and you can get the lower-end (lower-end for eggle!) berlins starting at around £400-£450. But again odds are that means buying off E-bay, which is a bit riskier than walking into a shop.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 09:13:57 PM by dave_mc »

ToneMonkey

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2009, 09:27:18 PM »


yeah, eggles are great. the older ones, especially, before they became tiggles. I have a tiggle and it's great (I also have an older one), but the QC isn't meant to be so good. That would be a very good call, actually, you can get an old s/h Eggle starting around the £300 for a basic new york style one, and you can get the lower-end (lower-end for eggle!) berlins starting at around £400-£450. But again odds are that means buying off E-bay, which is a bit riskier than walking into a shop.

Or wait for the Rev to get board with one, shouldn't take more than a few days  :lol:
Advice worth what you just paid for it.

gwEm

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2009, 10:00:18 PM »
we all know that mojo is something which can be apart from quality. maybe a beat up guitar with issues somehow flicks your switch and you fall in love..

i played a few expensively made, high quality instruments, and i couldn't get connected in some cases
Quote from: AndyR
you wouldn't use the meat knife on crusty bread but, equally, the serrated knife and straight edge knife aren't going to go through raw meat as quickly

MDV

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2009, 10:05:55 PM »
we all know that mojo is something which can be apart from quality. maybe a beat up guitar with issues somehow flicks your switch and you fall in love..

i played a few expensively made, high quality instruments, and i couldn't get connected in some cases

All true.

Also, over time, mojo can grow. Not to mean the guitar changes, which it might, but thats another discussion, but you can go back to an instrument that you've previously not been that connected with and find more mojo in it. This has happened steadily over 10 years with my jackson DX1 and over the last few months with my humble crawler equiped Epi LP.

Also, some guitars you really want to get on with, it ticks all the boxes on paper, but something isnt right.

You cant buy that shite, and you cant predict it.

LazyNinja

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2009, 10:12:04 PM »
we all know that mojo is something which can be apart from quality. maybe a beat up guitar with issues somehow flicks your switch and you fall in love..

i played a few expensively made, high quality instruments, and i couldn't get connected in some cases

agreed

dave_mc

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2009, 10:24:51 PM »
Or wait for the Rev to get board with one, shouldn't take more than a few days  :lol:

i had no idea what you meant for a minute or two, but i know what you mean now. yeah, he does seem to go through a lot of them :lol:

Lew

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2009, 11:13:00 PM »
There are guitars and then there are guitars.

gwEm

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2009, 11:38:29 PM »
There are guitars and then there are guitars.
:roll:
Quote from: AndyR
you wouldn't use the meat knife on crusty bread but, equally, the serrated knife and straight edge knife aren't going to go through raw meat as quickly

FELINEGUITARS

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2009, 12:54:24 AM »
Swamp ash can be great to make a guitar from


Whilst I will obviously want to say that custom built are best - to be fair there are some awesome factory built guitars out there - and not just the custom shop or top of the range ones

We had a Chinese made Squier strat in last weekend that sounded so great but the fretting was all over the place .
It had the best acoustic ring I have heard in ages - just made you want to play , but the frets were so uneven that you got way too much fret dress.

I wanted to say to the player to have a fret dress or a refret and level the board as it would be such a great sounding guitar, just from how well the wooden parts interacted with each other with strings on .

OK - I would maybe have suggested BKPs and some hardware upgrades too if the player wanted the best

Sadly (and maybe understandably ) the player didn't want to spend the original cost of the guitar to have it's problems sorted, but it was a shame because I could hear how good a guitar it already was .
And even if he had wanted to make it a super guitar - it would still say Squier and the player would be upset to spend money and not have a "prestige" brand name on the guitar - one that would impress his mates.

Life's funny like that sometimes!


But whatever guitar you go for - it can pay HUGE dividends to have it set up really well!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 01:04:52 AM by FELINEGUITARS »
www.felineguitars.com - repairs & custom built
Great fretwork!
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Lew

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2009, 02:28:44 AM »
There are guitars and then there are guitars.
:roll:

 :roll: right back at ya.

It's true, all guitars are not made equal... I'll elaborate...

Sometimes you spend a fortune getting it and sometimes you can spend a few hundred to get it... a guitar with a good core tone doesn't give a fig if it was CNC made in a factory in Mexico or handcrafted by magic tone elves. But you've got a safer bet with the elves.

After making a guitar, I think any decent small/personal high end builder/company should throw the guitar in a bin and burn if it doesn't reach their standards. It'd be nice if that was the case with bigger high end companies but it isn't - and, I'm sure it's the hardest thing for a big company to monitor.

The big(ger) producers will still let a p.o.s plank through - I've had first hand experience of both Suhr and PRS selling dead guitars right next to right corkers that they've made for example. Whereas that's very rare with a more personal and intimate build - nothing to do with $$$ and everything to do with having the time for each build.

Having said that, IMO every instrument should be taken on it's own merits regardless of what it says on the headstock.

So yea... there are guitars and then there are guitars
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 02:42:59 AM by Lew!! »

WezV

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2009, 07:21:52 AM »
But whatever guitar you go for - it can pay HUGE dividends to have it set up really well!

i was staying out of this too because obviously i am not very impartial... but just wanted to throw a big +1 on this statement

dave mentions a guitar from me playing as slickly as his modern eagle.  That was a warmoth neck he had played before on a different body, a very nice neck but nothing 'special' - i didnt do much more than set-up, some softening of factory sharp edges and touching up of the oil finish.

_tom_

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2009, 09:20:03 AM »
But whatever guitar you go for - it can pay HUGE dividends to have it set up really well!

Definitely agreed on this. I was shocked by how much better my Pearl played after I got a proper fret dress/setup. Problem is, that guitar plays so well that all my guitars will need to be set up by the guy who did it now :lol:

Twinfan

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2009, 09:24:09 AM »
Thta's the point Wez - you took a 'normal' neck and made it the best it can be with fingerboard rolling, fret attention etc.  It's now SUPER slick to play, and yes it's as good as my Modern Eagle.

Well, maybe not quite as slick as Brazilian Rosewood  ;)

sambo

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Re: Custom vs. High-end production guitars
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2009, 11:34:12 AM »



That I'm nothing but excited about my second one should tell you something though :D

It does indeed!


And Matt77, very interesting. I must get to try a Musicman at some point. Nick who used to post on here couldn't say enough good things about them.


Lots of thought-provoking ideas in here, it's helping a lot guys, thanks.


The point about set-ups is something I've thought about in the past. The Fernandes Ravelle that I sold probably would have been a far greater guitar than I thought it was if I had got it set up properly, as would the Burny LP which I also got rid of. It's just another factor which makes judging the "potential" of a guitar so difficult. I don't know whether if I tried a £1200 Vigier that didn't play quite right it could be perfected with a set-up. That could result in me missing a diamond of a guitar and then spending a bucket load more just because another guitar was set up correctly, if you see what I mean.

And Jonathan that's gorgeous. My current favourite is a very similar finish to that (this is a 513 not a SAS, but still Swamp Ash body):



I may be in touch about a quote!