Is Health and Safety a new religion?

[Stevepage]

I work in a warehouse where you have to report ANY accident, no matter how small.

I found a list of the recent ones on a board which some were:

*Pain in finger
*Hit head on racking
*Pain in Knee

and more like that. I can't help but laugh because some people are so petty that they have to report anything.

I've bashed my head plenty of times and pulled muscles but only ever reported them if I've really had to (manager made me report pulling a back muscle after requesting to do something that required less lifting to avoid going home early, which cost me and him time and effort).

There are some stupid people out there that need to 'man up'

[ToneMonkey]

Well I work with electric (the type that makes craters when it goes wrong) and construction (including street works) and I have a raft of H&S qualifications in all sorts of stuff.  It's also my job to do safety audits on my sites as well as act as a H&S Co-ordinator on all projects notifiable to the HSE (which is all of them).

The work I do (not personally, but the work I look after) is very dangerous and elentric scares the shite out of me.  I'm glad of all the H&S that we have to do, 'cause I really don't want to die at work.  Anywhere else is fine, but I don't want my last ever memeory being of work.

Most of the problems with all the H&S arsery though is people interpritations of the rules.  The rules are put out there and different people read different things into it.  We have arguements all the time on site as to different people responsabilities, purely because we all read them differently.

Saying that though, some peoplel go well over the top........ but all the accidnets should still be reported (even the little ones and the near misses) as if your work is doing their job right, they should be looking at those periodically and seeing what they can do.  If enough people reported banging their head on the racking at work (which I used to do all the time) then they really should move the bottom bar and take out a bay.

[Will]

I found out today that apparently businesses should have an accident book!

I sliced my first finger quite badly* today and my Brother made a sarcy comment about whether I wanted to make a note of it ;)

*My old man even recommended stitches, and he is an unsympathetic git

[Afghan Dave]

No, we all get the society a few of us deserve.

In this case.

At work the other week I visited another building that has a footpath across some grass thats the easiest way to get to the front door. There were barriers at either end of it this particular time, but the path was the same, there was no work being done anywhere nearby, the whole place was identical to usual save the barriers. Perfectly good footpath. So I ignored the barriers and walked across it.

When I get inside some little tw@t (see replies 5 and 7 for more information) comes up to me and says "why did you cross the barriers? Youre supposed to obey the barriers and the signs on them" I told him that there was nothing different about the place apart from the barriers, and it posed no hazard whatsoever to cross them. He carried on berating me for a bit, which I ignored, and finally said that "It is a bit trivial actually; someone tripped on the edge of the path"

SOOO some clumsy git falls off a 2 inch high footpath and they cordon off the area like its a $%&#ing deathtrap and have a go at anyone with the sense to ignore it and without the ineptitude to fall off a 2 inch drop.

Makes perfect sense.

So you ignored the warnings and made an assumption that " it posed no hazard whatsoever to cross them".

Is that a maxim you would like to be adopted universally?

I think you would feel differently if you were the one who could have been sued for liability. Even if the action just wastes time it still negatively impacts on the company.

[MDV]

I made no assumption. I made an assessment, and a correct one at that.

[JDC]

some kid died in a grave yard once because a grave stone fell on them... parents sue and get a million or so

so what does the council do... spent 6 million ish sticking up sign posts on every grave to say it could be unstable

how daft can you get, better off pumping that money into the NHS

[Afghan Dave]

About time... Graveyards are chock-a-block with fatalities  :lol:

[38thBeatle]

I deal all day with claims against employers. I can understand the arse covering. If you saw the trivial and ludicrous claims I see you'd understand why. Conversely there are companies that have an almost criminal disregard for the wellbeing of their employees. I think the thing that irritates me the most is where the employee has done something stupid and yet the employee gets caught out because they are apparently at fault for not supervising someone who is an experienced worker. I have one right now where a sheet metal worked, for quickness, didn't bother to secure the job he was working on and was injured and is now pursuing a claim against his employers. This is a guy with over 25 years experience.
I wonder how many businesses close down because of the H & S pressure.

[Elliot]

'Ambulance chasers' only came about because the government wanted to abolish more and more areas where civil legal aid was available.  The trade off was that lawyers and insurance companies (as most ambulance chasers are) were allowed to work on no win, no fee agreements (which was previously forbidden).  Insurers make money out of these claims because they sell 'After the Event' Insurance to cover the chance of the litigant losing and having to pay the otherside's costs. 

No win no fee doesn't encourage pointless litigation - what lawyer (who, lets face it, is a money driven animal - why would you want to spend years at University and then deal with other people's misery without a big pay off? - if you want that become a nurse!) would fight a case, spending the many hours of work it takes to litigate, without an almost near to damnit chance of winning the case and getting the 35% up lift in fees from the otherside that no win no fee creates?

As I said, No Win, No Fee normally means that an insurer is backing the case - Only cases advised by Counsel at 70% (which is a very high ratio) get through the net, so statistically the quantity of personal injury litigation has gone down dramatically since the introduction of NW,NF and the abolition of legal aid for PI claims - its just now its been farmed out to commercial entities you hear about it more.

Its the perception of legal action that drives silly H&S officers (and probably company insurers) not the reality.  But in my view, its better to be over cautious with people's health and safety than slap dash.

[Afghan Dave]

Thanks Elliot. The voice of reason and experience. I learnt a lot.

[MDV]

Very interesting post, elliot, I didnt know that, thanks.

[tomjackson]

[irony]
These are healthy measures to reduce productivity as the total output capacity of our economy by far exceeds the world demand for products and services. Measures to reduce productivity and means to enforce them ensure a reinstitution of the balance of supply and demand and full employment.
[/irony]

I like this point and I think there is some truth in it.  I have had thoughts like this before but never had it put into words.  Much of the UK and Europe is mainly service industries and many of them industries are servicing each other in pointless tasks.

My own electrical engineers have to get their equipment PAT tested from an external party that have done a 2 day course for god sake!!!

[tomjackson]

Again, I'm not having ago at many of the good people and procedures that are within the H&S industry.
Accident reporting, training and sfe practises save lives, it is serious stuff we should all take note of. 

It's this kind of thing that get's my goat.  The over-the-top-common-sense-out-the-window-brigade.  the 10% OTT ers that use it for their means

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/5436151/Strawberry-farms-ends-PYO-over-health-and-safety-rules.html

Trouble is when you speak up it looks like your advocating slack dangourus or apathetic practises when really your just speaking

COMMON SENSE!!!

[FELINEGUITARS]

I make my staff fill out a risk assessment form before putting the kettle on for a cuppa (NOT)

[Will]

This is slightly off topic, but refers to Elliot's point about how likely the no 'win no fee' solicitors to proceed with an unlikely case.

Someone I work with got driven into at a petrol station when in Liverpool, sideways collision etc. Uninsured van, not taxed, driver from a travelling community.

Claim against our business insurance for loss of earnings, whiplash, damage, with the argument that our driver was driving dangerously :?
They also won... (not relevant that they hadn't worked before and had been claiming benefits)
I would just like to know how that worked, as surely their argument is a little bit flawed?