To those who speculate on instruments

[Dr. Vic]

Here's the story :

I was looking for a US Jackson (KV model).

I founded a european shop who sold one for 1900 euros in 'like new conditions'.

I thought the guitar had just been played for some commercial events or demonstration  in the shop but in fact it was a real second hand instrument, with 2 small cosmetic scratches on it. So I founded it quite pricey...and even if the finish was beautiful and rare I wasn't sure if it was worth the cost...

So I looked around if I could find something better..........and I found someone in States who sold months ago a similar-ish second hand guitar (same model – same finish) for 1130 USD which is about 830 euros.

Taking a closer look at this, I found that this guitar had the exact same cosmetics issues at the same places......... :?

So I asked the shop for more informations on his guitar sold as a « like new model ».
And I realize that the guitar had the exact same serial number as the one seen on the US advert !!.

So this shop is selling a guitar for more than twice the price the original owner sold it ! WTF ??!!!

The shop explained me that he bought the guitar from someone in europe and certainly not for 830 euros..I trust him but there must be someone in the story who made a good bargain with the sale, (even if you add the shipping and taxes fees...)

DEATH to all who speculate to make their own business on instruments : we are musicians not traders ! 

 :ctf: :rock:

I am SO upset with that story, ... I wanted to share... :(

[Twinfan]

Hey, that's business!  Make a dollar while you can...

[AndyR]

I kind of agree with Twinfan here.

I also feel your pain, but whether we like it or not, the interweb thing is gradually turning us all into traders :(

I'd rather be able to walk into a shop, look at the price tag, decide whether it's worth it to me (this is guitars, shoes, jackets, boxes of eggs, whatever) and make a decision based on the asking price. I don't want any of this haggling sh1t, or feeling like a numpty when I've bought something for X and someone tells me "didn't you get a discount? take it back, you could've had for Y if you'd etc, etc..."

But that's just my cultural preference I spose, what I grew up with... If shop A's prices for butter are too high, go to shop B...

Nowadays you can probably do a deal on anything (I wonder if you could cut a deal on the checkouts at Sainsburies?? :lol:).

In your situation, the bloke paid something for it, which he presumably thought was fair, he has to make a buck, he's asking what he think he can get for it... and you got to remember, if he's running a shop, he is a trader :lol:

People buying concert/sport tickets to make a buck selling above face value still p1sses me off, but this situation I can't really argue with - there's an object for sale, which seems to be in demand, he makes a living buying and selling objects like that, you're a buyer... if you don't like the price, you can wait for a cheaper one (or track down the cheaper one on the net, or go to the US to get, etc, etc). If he's got it wrong, he will have to drop his price to shift it... If someone buys it at his price, he was right - and that is what the guitar was worth... (might not be when the numpty's walked out the shop, but that's the next link in the chain :lol:)

Still feel your pain though :(

[Twinfan]

Oh yeah, it's a pain for folks but it's only market forces....

[Dr. Vic]

thanks for the feedback guys. I am now looking for a new deal  :lol:

What I wanted to point here are those kind of people who generate a "false market" based on speculation resulting at the end to stupid prices and situations like the one I described where the same item is now sold twice it's price. Just hope the original owner of this guitar won't discover that !

And you're absolutely right guys there is nothing original in my story and we found that kind of situation everywhere, and the ones who make a buck selling on concert/sport tickets above face value is indeed a very good example : just can't stand thoses spongers. 

When your job is to sell - as a professionnal dealer - , of course you have to earn money because it's your business. As for me I am happy with my job that gives me what I need to live and I hope I won't never have/need to behave like those guys while keeping buying and/or selling my gears just at the right - most honest - market based prices.  :mrgreen:

[Twinfan]

It's not a "false market" though is it?

If someone is prepared to pay the higher price, then that IS the market!

[AndyR]

Once again, yer ole "Uncle Twin" is right :lol:

There's always some swine who's prepared to pay more than you are, so if the item's in short supply, it kinda means you'll probably have to pay the same eventually :(

[shobet]

As twin says, it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If you don't like the price go somewhere else to get one. Shop around, I bet any money you can find another for a lot less than that. You should be able to get a new one for not far off that money. Trawl the Jackson forums and do some homework on what the going rate is. You may even be able to pick on up directly through them. Finland is a huge market for Jackson Vs. I think it must be the cold weather or something...

http://www.jacksonguitarpalace.com/forum/
and
http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/

are two good resources for Jackson guitars.  

[Philly Q]

When all's said and done, if you'd seen the guitar at the time it was listed on eBay you might have bought it for $1,200 and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

All the "speculator" did was bid more than anyone else - it's not as if he has any extra "buying power" just because he's a dealer.  If he can then find someone who's prepared to pay a lot more for it, good luck to him!

[Supernaught]

You also have to take into consideration that until very recently guitars in the US sold for dollars exactly what they sell in the UK for pounds.     What I mean is that a $1000 guitar in a shop in the states sold for £1000 in a shop over here.   
(It has changed a little in the last year, but its only 10-15% more dollars.  A strat sells for $1100 and £800, but thats only very recently and due to the economy and exchange rates.)

A few years ago I bought a Dean 30th Anniversary ML.   Here in the UK they retailed at around £800.   In the US they retailed at around $800.    At the time the exchange rate was pretty much 2 dollars to the pound.    So I bought the guitar from a US dealer on Ebay, and even after postage, VAT and import duty, I got an £800 guitar for £500.

To make this relevant to your story, the Jackson guitar was sold originally in the states for $1130.    This would equate to £1130 in a shop over here.   Until recently that would work out at 1500 Euros or thereabouts.   So now you found a shop selling it for 1900 Euros, who probably had to pay at least 150 Euros postage, taxes and import duty etc.     

They are making a profit, but not so much of a huge one as it would initially appear.   Its not good, and its not fair, but thats life :(

[TheIronBeast]

I agree with Twinfan that it is just business. It doesn't matter if it's guitars, clothes, shoes, or anything, a shop will always sell for more than they paid for it. I run my own hardware shop in town and I have a supplier that I get good quality power tools from for dirt cheap (maybe £15 - £20) and I sell them in the shop for somewhere between £39.99 - £44.99 and whenever I get them in they always sell. The fact is, if there is a high enough demand for something, people will pay the prices.

[mikeluke]

Does VAT also come into the equation? Most shops would have to add VAT to the price - therefore bumping it up