New Boy Help Needed

[kbambury]

Hi Guys,

apologies that my first post on the forum is a plea for help but I'd be really grateful if anyone out there has any useful advice.

I wired my newly aquired Riff Raff bridge (4 conductor) into my SG Special Faded yesterday and was happy with how it went,... that is until I plugged in and realised that the volume of the bridge is seriously lower than the neck and neck/bridge combined.

I'm completely new to wiring guitars but was hoping that it was going to be straightforward.

I removed the stock pickup and after fixing in the new covered Riff Raff, soldered the black/bare wires to the back of the neck pot (where the braided cover of the old pickup was soldered). I then soldered the red wire to the bridge volume lug which is also soldered to the capacitor joined to the bridge tone.

Finally having shortened the cables slightly I resoldered the white and green wires together before taping (insulation) them together and out of the way.

So what I thought was going to be a straight forward job has turned into a right melon scratcher.

I'm thinking that I've either mucked the grounding or soldering up or alternatively have somehow wired the bridge out of phase.

Please HELP!

[AndyR]

Welcome, don't worry about first post is a cry for help :D

It does sound like a phase/tap issue. Unfortunately I only ever go for 2 wire connections, so I'm not too familiar with the colours - I'm sure someone will pile in with the right colours (it's Monday morning here in the UK, need to give 'em a chance to get to their desk, make a coffee, think about working... and then come on here :lol:)

Alternatively, do a search on this forum - this thing comes up every now and then.

When you've got it going, you'll love it, my RRs are in an SG Special Faded :D

[ToneMonkey]

Simple question..... being simple myself, it's always a good place for me to start.

Have you physically raised the pickup towards the strings?

[kbambury]

Hi Guys,

thanks for the replies, really appreciate you getting back to me. I have raised the pickup as close to the strings as possible without getting string buzz but there was no joy unfortunately.

I did run a few searches through the forum and there was one similar issue (all be it on a different guitar/setup - tele I think) where the suggestion (which worked) was to reverse the hot and ground wiring. As only one pickup was being replaced on this particular guitar, wiring it with the red to lug and black/bare to ground had actually wired it out of phase.

Whilst willing to give this a bash, I thought I'd obtain further information first to ensure this will ulitmately lead to a positive result.

Thanks once again!

[Frank]

If the sound is weedy and thin compared to the other humbucker then I'd guess it's either out of phase or one of the coils isn't wired right? Try tapping the pole pieces with a screwdriver first on one coil then the other, if one set of pole pieces is much quieter than the other then maybe you've accidentally wired it split-coil so you're only getting a single coil working.

Very often the easiest way to proceed as a newbie is to entirely unsolder all the wires and start again from scratch making sure you really follow the wiring diagram accurately. It's just easier to rip it out and start over rather than trying to trace a wiring error!

Good luck with it, post sound clips when you get it fixed!

[Frank]

Actually, this might be helpful - test if either coil is open circuit (broken coil wire).

Plug a lead into your amp and try touching pairs of pickup wires onto the tip and sleeve contacts of the jack plug. Eventually you should find TWO combinations of wires that produce a single-coil output when you hit the strings or pole pieces. If you only get output from ONE combination then one of the coils is broken.

If both coils are working then refer back to your wiring schematic, check that things like ground wires are soldered firmly and make sure that the junction where you joined the two coils together makes a good solid connection. Check for bad solder joints, take your time and don't be in too much of a mad rush to get the guitar cranked through your amp or you'll rush it and do a bad job.

[Twinfan]

Out-of-phase problems only occur when you combine pickups, so it's not a phase issue.

I'm thinking that the middle position sounds OK because you're mainly hearing the neck pickup.

I would suspect a few things:

* selector switch isn't working correctly - check the contacts are clean and connecting in all 3 positions
* poor connection of the bridge pickup to the selector - check the soldering at the switch
* poor ground for the bridge pickup - check the soldering on the back of the pot
* bad connection either into or out of the volume pot - check the soldering on all lugs
* bad connection in the coil tap wiring - check the soldering on the green/white connection

If you have a multimeter you could check the DC resistance of the pickup too.

[Frank]

Out-of-phase problems only occur when you combine pickups, so it's not a phase issue.

... or when the two coils of a humbucker are wired in the wrong phase which may well be the issue here

I can't see a BKP wiring diagram on the site, anyone know the exact colour code used in these humbuckers?

[Twinfan]

Out-of-phase problems only occur when you combine pickups, so it's not a phase issue.

... or when the two coils of a humbucker are wired in the wrong phase which may well be the issue here

I know the BKP wiring code, and the poster has it wired up correctly  ;)

Red = Hot
Black = Earth
Green/White - splits

:D

[Twinfan]

From the main site FAQ page:

What is the Bare Knuckle Four conductor colour code?

Black = start of screw coil
White = finish of screw coil
Red = start of slug coil
Green = finish of slug coil

[Frank]

I blame Gremlins

Sneaky little beggars, they creep inside your guitar and rewire it before you plug it in

[kbambury]

Thanks again guys.

The pickup is covered so I'm unable to tap the contacts on the individual coils within the humbucker but I'm reasonably confident that I've followed the wiring diagram correctly.

I made sure that I created a detailed drawing of the previous setup and when the old pickup was removed, soldered the black/bare to the location of the original pickup's braided sheild and the red to the neck pot lug - again the location of the original pickup's hot wire.

Whilst soldering the above the switch grounding (to the back of the neck pot) wire detached itself so I re-soldered that joint also but this was all the soldering that was done.

So overall I'm hoping that one or a combination of these new joins are causing the problem.

In answer to Twinfan's post, the middle position does sound OK but I'm guessing that it's 90/10 in favour of the neck - just to quantify the drop off in volume, with boths guitar pots on 10, the brige pickup needs my amp (Marshall Vintage Modern 50W 2x12 combo) to be set to around 4-5 to mimic the volume of the neck when the amp is set to just barely on.

From the suspect list, I reckon the last 3 points are more likely than the first 2 as I didn't really touch the selector switch connections (except for the ground wire as mentioned above):

* selector switch isn't working correctly - check the contacts are clean and connecting in all 3 positions
* poor connection of the bridge pickup to the selector - check the soldering at the switch
* poor ground for the bridge pickup - check the soldering on the back of the pot
* bad connection either into or out of the volume pot - check the soldering on all lugs
* bad connection in the coil tap wiring - check the soldering on the green/white connection

Is checking the DC resistance of the pickup the only thing I can check with a multimeter to help identify the issue or are there other avenues I can pursue.

My main concern now is that being reasonably new to soldering, if I have created a bad join(s) (I followed all soldering advice and thought they looked reasonably good) then I'm unlikely to rectify this by unsoldering and trying again. I'm also fearful that I risk damaging components as well while attempting to get better joins.

I'm guessing I might have to concede and seek the assistance of a pro :(

[Frank]

As a last ditch effort, it's worth  desoldering just the main hot and ground wires and trying these directly onto the output jack. That'll tell you if the pickup is really working, if it is then just run through and look at the wiring to the pots and switch.

Learning about guitar wiring and humbucker wiring especially takes a while, give it another shot. You're unlikely to damage anything more than a £2 potentiometer unless you go hacking away like a maniac. And you may just have the pleasure of not paying a repairman to do a simple job.

I'd also temporarily bypass the coil tap switch by joining the two wires together so you have a stock humbucker for now.

[Twinfan]

I wouldn't rul eout checking things you haven't directly changed.  The heating of other local components could 'break' an exisiting good joint.

I personally would re-solder everything I'd touched first.  If I still had a problem then I'd re-solder the main signal path: output from bridge volume pot (centre lug), selector switch etc.

[Twinfan]

I'd also temporarily bypass the coil tap switch by joining the two wires together so you have a stock humbucker for now.

He's not using a split matey - read post number 1 again  ;)