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Author Topic: US Healthcare Reforms Passed  (Read 6529 times)

nfe

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US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« on: November 08, 2009, 05:30:57 PM »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8348941.stm

Watered down version and still a long way from universal healthcare but it's a start. What do our American forum users think? Glad? Or terrified the reds are taking over?  :lol:

Ratrod

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2009, 05:53:33 PM »
Here in Holland we used to have a universal heathcare system.

Then some moron thought it would be a good idea to privatise the whole thing. The market system and competition would ensure better quality and lower costs (insurence premiums).

Guess what happened.  :lol:
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dave_mc

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2009, 06:04:05 PM »
i'm guessing precisely that happened, with no downsides whatsoever.

much like what happened with the trains here. EDIT: i say here, but i mean in the parts of the country, unlike mine, which actually have trains. bar-stewards shut ours down with dodgy research (mainly running trains at times no-one would want to use them and then using that as an excuse to close them because there was "no demand") and probable backhanders from freight companies.

Plexi Ken

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2009, 07:12:41 PM »
[snip] ...The market system and competition would ensure better quality and lower costs... [/snip]

That guy Adam Smith has a lot to answer for  :wink:  It's odd how many denationalise industries perform poorly. Recently in the UK, we had the situation where one of the rail operators wanted to give the unprofitable part of the network back to the government while they kept the highly profitable lines. I bet all private companies wish that could be that during a recession  :D
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Jonny

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2009, 07:20:50 PM »
[snip] ...The market system and competition would ensure better quality and lower costs... [/snip]

That guy Adam Smith has a lot to answer for  :wink:  It's odd how many denationalise industries perform poorly. Recently in the UK, we had the situation where one of the rail operators wanted to give the unprofitable part of the network back to the government while they kept the highly profitable lines. I bet all private companies wish that could be that during a recession  :D
Being at a graduate level of knowledge on Economics I could reply to this with a full frontal, no holds barred evaluation essay on this.

But sadly that also means I'm a student so I shall not even start it.
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CaptainDesslock

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2009, 07:49:53 PM »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8348941.stm

Watered down version and still a long way from universal healthcare but it's a start. What do our American forum users think? Glad? Or terrified the reds are taking over?  :lol:

To be honest I find giant sweeping government changes to anything rather scary....I am curious how many pages of it Obama actually read but I guess its whatever
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dave_mc

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2009, 10:50:49 PM »
[snip] ...The market system and competition would ensure better quality and lower costs... [/snip]

That guy Adam Smith has a lot to answer for  :wink:  It's odd how many denationalise industries perform poorly. Recently in the UK, we had the situation where one of the rail operators wanted to give the unprofitable part of the network back to the government while they kept the highly profitable lines. I bet all private companies wish that could be that during a recession  :D

i dunno if adam smith was that bad. what little i've read of it, he actually seems to be in favour of good regulation, etc. etc. it's the neocons, investment bankers and marketing departments who've rewritten the rulebook, if you ask me.

Plexi Ken

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2009, 11:06:44 PM »
Apologies for the misunderstanding to Jonny & Dave, the winkie at the end of the Adam Smith remark indicates that it's a light hearted statement not to be taken seriously  :wink:
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dave_mc

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 12:14:35 AM »
woops :lol:

JDC

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 07:30:54 AM »
I'm getting off topic but with trains I hear banks own all the rolling stock, carriages as I call them, lovely additional cost there for rail users, and the rail companies don't want to spend more hence packed trains at peak times

although my source for this information is a show dom jolly did, so make of that what you will...

noodleplugerine

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 08:39:17 AM »
i'm guessing precisely that happened, with no downsides whatsoever.

much like what happened with the trains here. EDIT: i say here, but i mean in the parts of the country, unlike mine, which actually have trains. bar-stewards shut ours down with dodgy research (mainly running trains at times no-one would want to use them and then using that as an excuse to close them because there was "no demand") and probable backhanders from freight companies.

Just lol.

Anyone that thinks that the British train network is in anyway worth defending needs their head screwed back on.
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Prawnik

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 09:55:35 AM »
I'm getting off topic but with trains I hear banks own all the rolling stock, carriages as I call them, lovely additional cost there for rail users, and the rail companies don't want to spend more hence packed trains at peak times

although my source for this information is a show dom jolly did, so make of that what you will...

Sale and leaseback. This is common in many lines of business such as airlines, usually depending on the cashflow needs of the parties and whether they have taxable income to offset.

Ratrod

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 11:56:28 AM »
[snip] ...The market system and competition would ensure better quality and lower costs... [/snip]

That guy Adam Smith has a lot to answer for  :wink:  It's odd how many denationalise industries perform poorly. Recently in the UK, we had the situation where one of the rail operators wanted to give the unprofitable part of the network back to the government while they kept the highly profitable lines. I bet all private companies wish that could be that during a recession  :D
Being at a graduate level of knowledge on Economics I could reply to this with a full frontal, no holds barred evaluation essay on this.

But sadly that also means I'm a student so I shall not even start it.

I have a bachelor degree in business economics.

To put things in layman's terms, a free market needs certain ingredients in order to work. Such as:

A noticable difference between brands.
The choise NOT to use the product.

These ingredients aren't there in public services/facilities.

There's not enough price difference in health insurance and there's no difference in service either and I cannot choose not to use it.

Same goes for electicity and gas.

When they all got privatised in Holland, the civil servants were replaced by managers.

We all know how to stero type civil cervants and the same goes for managers only they're even more expensive. The costs of those managers are huge. And above that there's a profit that has to be made and has to be more every year.
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dave_mc

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2009, 05:46:26 PM »
Just lol.

Anyone that thinks that the British train network is in anyway worth defending needs their head screwed back on.

what now? trains are great, if they're run properly (ours aren't). they're fast, you don't get in traffic jams, and they're much more comfortable than buses. they also take a lot of heavy freight (again, if run properly) off the roads.

Prawnik

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Re: US Healthcare Reforms Passed
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 10:00:38 AM »
[snip] ...The market system and competition would ensure better quality and lower costs... [/snip]

That guy Adam Smith has a lot to answer for  :wink:  It's odd how many denationalise industries perform poorly. Recently in the UK, we had the situation where one of the rail operators wanted to give the unprofitable part of the network back to the government while they kept the highly profitable lines. I bet all private companies wish that could be that during a recession  :D
Being at a graduate level of knowledge on Economics I could reply to this with a full frontal, no holds barred evaluation essay on this.

But sadly that also means I'm a student so I shall not even start it.

I have a bachelor degree in business economics.

To put things in layman's terms, a free market needs certain ingredients in order to work. Such as:

A noticable difference between brands.
The choise NOT to use the product.

These ingredients aren't there in public services/facilities.

There's not enough price difference in health insurance and there's no difference in service either and I cannot choose not to use it.

Same goes for electicity and gas.

When they all got privatised in Holland, the civil servants were replaced by managers.

We all know how to stero type civil cervants and the same goes for managers only they're even more expensive. The costs of those managers are huge. And above that there's a profit that has to be made and has to be more every year.


They don't let me study econ but another reason medicine does not lend itself to market practice is that the average frustrated consumer lacks the knowledge to tell a good doctor from a bad one, a well performed procedure from a poorly performed one, or for that matter, a necessary test from an unnecessary one.

Furthermore, acquiring any significant degree of medical knowledge requires years of training and study, which represents a massive investment for the average frustrated consumer, assuming he is capable of understanding it in the first place.

Hence a "successful" treatment might be "I took penicillin for my cold and it went away in three days!" Or a "good" doctor: "I really like Dr. Funckenstein, he is always really nice to me when I am sick!"