Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?

[tomjackson]

I'm a operator in a Petroleum refinary... I guess I can be called "guilty"

No more guilty than anybody who uses fuel, which is all of us...

[dave_mc]

(a) Dave, do you really think that if mankind all got together and did something positive about our emissions and did what needs to be done it would make any difference? (b) Those climate cycles will still take place and eventually, despite the efforts of friends of the earth ect, an ice age will happen once again or the planet will heat up too much to sustain life as we know it. (c) We can't control the Earth and nor can taxation.  Anything that we can do will be cancelled out by the world population growing bigger and bigger, consuming more and more resources. Nothings going to get the world together to try and make a difference, its just not going to happen. The task is far too vast. There has been deforestation going on for 100's of years for various needs and it still goes on. All that does happens is someone like Sting brought it too our attention in the 80's and people have twittered about it ever since. But it still goes on, mainly for Palm Oil now. Because its used in so many products that we use. More people, more consumption. Mankind, sadly will destroy itself. We can't do much about it. We don't need a PM taxing us to death on so many levels already, to exploit this to try squeeze even more money from us. I know this sounds very pessimistic but we should be grateful we we're born in the times we were, we have electric guitars ect. In 30 years the world population is expected to level off at 9 billion. The world won't be able to produce enough food to feed that amount of people, let alone fresh drinking water. Some say we already at that point.
We can try and reduce our impact on the world and we already are in this country doing as much re-cycling as we can feasibly cope with.
Anyway, I'm dog tired and had a very large Bruichladdich earlier!

(a) it'd definitely stop the harm we're doing. it probably would help, yeah, if it were done right.

(b) of course. but the climate change scientists seem to think what's happening at the moment is mainly caused by us.

also, these scientists probably aren't in friends of the earth. neither am i.

(c) i already said i didn't agree with taxation. We can already do a fair bit. Trying our best to minimise the harm we're doing might buy us enough time to figure out some way to combat the harm we're not doing.

I agree with what you're saying about consumption etc., but again that's why i disagree with how we're fighting it. We're doing small things for political gain which will just piss people off, when we need to do fairly big things. Or else do nothing, and take our medicine when it comes. The half-assed way we're trying to fix it at the moment is probably the worst of both worlds.

[Johnny Mac]

Dave, do you really think that if mankind all got together and did something positive about our emissions and did what needs to be done it would make any difference? Those climate cycles will still take place and eventually, despite the efforts of friends of the earth ect, an ice age will happen once again or the planet will heat up too much to sustain life as we know it. We can't control the Earth and nor can taxation.  Anything that we can do will be cancelled out by the world population growing bigger and bigger, consuming more and more resources. Nothings going to get the world together to try and make a difference, its just not going to happen. The task is far too vast. There has been deforestation going on for 100's of years for various needs and it still goes on. All that does happens is someone like Sting brought it too our attention in the 80's and people have twittered about it ever since. But it still goes on, mainly for Palm Oil now. Because its used in so many products that we use. More people, more consumption. Mankind, sadly will destroy itself. We can't do much about it. We don't need a PM taxing us to death on so many levels already, to exploit this to try squeeze even more money from us. I know this sounds very pessimistic but we should be grateful we we're born in the times we were, we have electric guitars ect. In 30 years the world population is expected to level off at 9 billion. The world won't be able to produce enough food to feed that amount of people, let alone fresh drinking water. Some say we already at that point.
We can try and reduce our impact on the world and we already are in this country doing as much re-cycling as we can feasibly cope with.
Anyway, I'm dog tired and had a very large Bruichladdich earlier!

Good job you didn't have a gin!

Your right there, Gin makes me talk bollocks!  :lol:

Anyway Scientists are for and against climate change.
Here's the Tony Robison Doc I mentioned earlier
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/man-on-earth/4od

[Afghan Dave]

It's been said before on this board but I'll say it again.

I have one live - only one and I'm living it.  My way.

Morally and legally consuming what I need, want and can afford.

I will continue to do this until I find a BETTER way or until I die.

Then I shall pass the problem and the moral choice onto my children (should I have any).

[Dmoney]

cheers dad.

[Johnny Mac]

(a) Dave, do you really think that if mankind all got together and did something positive about our emissions and did what needs to be done it would make any difference? (b) Those climate cycles will still take place and eventually, despite the efforts of friends of the earth ect, an ice age will happen once again or the planet will heat up too much to sustain life as we know it. (c) We can't control the Earth and nor can taxation.  Anything that we can do will be cancelled out by the world population growing bigger and bigger, consuming more and more resources. Nothings going to get the world together to try and make a difference, its just not going to happen. The task is far too vast. There has been deforestation going on for 100's of years for various needs and it still goes on. All that does happens is someone like Sting brought it too our attention in the 80's and people have twittered about it ever since. But it still goes on, mainly for Palm Oil now. Because its used in so many products that we use. More people, more consumption. Mankind, sadly will destroy itself. We can't do much about it. We don't need a PM taxing us to death on so many levels already, to exploit this to try squeeze even more money from us. I know this sounds very pessimistic but we should be grateful we we're born in the times we were, we have electric guitars ect. In 30 years the world population is expected to level off at 9 billion. The world won't be able to produce enough food to feed that amount of people, let alone fresh drinking water. Some say we already at that point.
We can try and reduce our impact on the world and we already are in this country doing as much re-cycling as we can feasibly cope with.
Anyway, I'm dog tired and had a very large Bruichladdich earlier!

(a) it'd definitely stop the harm we're doing. it probably would help, yeah, if it were done right.

(b) of course. but the climate change scientists seem to think what's happening at the moment is mainly caused by us.

also, these scientists probably aren't in friends of the earth. neither am i.

(c) i already said i didn't agree with taxation. We can already do a fair bit. Trying our best to minimise the harm we're doing might buy us enough time to figure out some way to combat the harm we're not doing.

I agree with what you're saying about consumption etc., but again that's why i disagree with how we're fighting it. We're doing small things for political gain which will just piss people off, when we need to do fairly big things. Or else do nothing, and take our medicine when it comes. The half-assed way we're trying to fix it at the moment is probably the worst of both worlds.

Dave there's so much I've picked up in the last few years just on waste disposal that is so scary. We produce so much rubbish that we can't keep using landfills. That is being controlled by tax so aggressively that fly tipping is rife.  So we will have to start burning it again, which will piss off more beards and sandals. Taxing somthing to try and control it isn't the answer, get to the root of problems. Packaging is one of them but its also a big buisness. (I know you said you didn't agree with taxation, I just mentioned it in general cos it pisses me off so much) That's just one thing and there are so many things that need action but its just not happening. I agree there is more we can do on a bigger scale to minimise and try and slow down our impact on the world.
Some scientists say we have caused global warming some say we haven't.
I've always been under the impression that the tech for engines to run on alternative fuels has been with us for decades but we never get them. Maybe The big Oil Companys do buy up the ideas and lock them away, who knows. Ultimately we rely so much on things that harm the world and its wildlife. We really need to stop breeding like bloody rabbits but people are not going to stop having children.
How long do you think we have left? I think around 200 years tops.  :| Doomed!  :lol:

[MrBump]

I'm a operator in a Petroleum refinary... I guess I can be called "guilty"

Job done!  It's all Fernandos fault!!!

[Philly Q]

Taxing somthing to try and control it isn't the answer, get to the root of problems. Packaging is one of them but its also a big buisness. (I know you said you didn't agree with taxation, I just mentioned it in general cos it pisses me off so much) That's just one thing and there are so many things that need action but its just not happening. I agree there is more we can do on a bigger scale to minimise and try and slow down our impact on the world.
Some scientists say we have caused global warming some say we haven't.
I've always been under the impression that the tech for engines to run on alternative fuels has been with us for decades but we never get them. Maybe The big Oil Companys do buy up the ideas and lock them away, who knows. Ultimately we rely so much on things that harm the world and its wildlife. We really need to stop breeding like bloody rabbits but people are not going to stop having children.

I certainly agree with all this part.  Taxing is just punishing us for contributing to the problem, not dealing with any of the root causes.  Beyond that, of course, it's another way of hitting us with "stealth" taxes and grabbing more money out of us.  Is that tax money even earmarked for environmental projects?

I suppose ultimately I agree that we're doomed (and on a personal level I won't be around to see it), but it's a shame politicians around the world have no real will to TRY to do something about it because it would ruffle too many feathers.   

It would be interesting to see how the world ends, actually.  No doubt the rich folks will cling on as long as possible by creating their own little artificial environments, like Center Parcs....

[Afghan Dave]

No doubt the rich folks will cling on as long as possible by creating their own little artificial environments, like Center Parcs....

When the rich start going to Center Parcs it will truly signal the "End of Days" ....  :lol: :lol:

[Johnny Mac]

No doubt the rich folks will cling on as long as possible by creating their own little artificial environments, like Center Parcs....

When the rich start going to Center Parcs it will truly signal the "End of Days" ....  :lol: :lol:

I can't see Prince Michael Of Kent and his appalling wife, nipping out of their chalet for a bike ride to the burger bar and then taking in some evening cabaret with Roy Chubby Brown but you never now! :lol:

[Philly Q]

No doubt the rich folks will cling on as long as possible by creating their own little artificial environments, like Center Parcs....

When the rich start going to Center Parcs it will truly signal the "End of Days" ....  :lol: :lol:

I can't see Prince Michael Of Kent and his appalling wife, nipping out of their chalet for a bike ride to the burger bar and then taking in some evening cabaret with Roy Chubby Brown but you never now! :lol:

Yeah, I guess it'll have to be "Center Parcs Platinum" or something, to keep out the hoi polloi.   

[mikeluke]

i wouldn't say there's no reason to claim global warming is happening when it's not (plenty of companies are jumping on the bandwagon), but there are an awful lot more financial reasons to claim it's not, if you ask me.

This is the interesting one - how many companies have jumped on the Green band wagon for fear of losing sales by not being perceived as being environmentally friendly? It bugs the hell out of me to see car companies and airlines claiming to be 'Green' - sure, you can be less polluting than you were, but they are a long way from being environmentally friendly, however you look at it.

On the scientific stuff - problem is that we don't have any accurate data which goes back far enough to draw any logical conclusions - and you don't want to be an enviro-sceptical boffin, because you will get your funding withdrawn from the government who is busy collecting green taxes. My conclusions are pretty much with Johnny Mac:

1. Is climate change a fact of life? - Yup
2. Is our consumption of Earth's raw materials contributing to this? - Probably
3. Will going Green reverse climate change? - No
4. Is going Green still a valid thing to do in order to conserve scarce resources - Yes

In my view, (and apologies if I offend anyone) - the one biggest thing that the world could do in order to slow down 4 is to control population growth - in 1950 there were about 2.5 Billion people on Earth - we now have more than 6 Billion!! - so we should be doing everything we can to REDUCE this number, rather than letting it increase.  I'll stop before I get on my really radical soap box about this one.....

[MDV]

i wouldn't say there's no reason to claim global warming is happening when it's not (plenty of companies are jumping on the bandwagon), but there are an awful lot more financial reasons to claim it's not, if you ask me.

This is the interesting one - how many companies have jumped on the Green band wagon for fear of losing sales by not being perceived as being environmentally friendly? It bugs the hell out of me to see car companies and airlines claiming to be 'Green' - sure, you can be less polluting than you were, but they are a long way from being environmentally friendly, however you look at it.

On the scientific stuff - problem is that we don't have any accurate data which goes back far enough to draw any logical conclusions - and you don't want to be an enviro-sceptical boffin, because you will get your funding withdrawn from the government who is busy collecting green taxes. My conclusions are pretty much with Johnny Mac:

1. Is climate change a fact of life? - Yup
2. Is our consumption of Earth's raw materials contributing to this? - Probably
3. Will going Green reverse climate change? - No
4. Is going Green still a valid thing to do in order to conserve scarce resources - Yes

In my view, (and apologies if I offend anyone) - the one biggest thing that the world could do in order to slow down 4 is to control population growth - in 1950 there were about 2.5 Billion people on Earth - we now have more than 6 Billion!! - so we should be doing everything we can to REDUCE this number, rather than letting it increase.  I'll stop before I get on my really radical soap box about this one.....

Easy there sonny!

Ok, you twisted my arm - give eugenics a chance!

Chavs and carreer criminals first.

[Ratrod]

quote:"(a) it'd definitely stop the harm we're doing. it probably would help, yeah, if it were done right."

CO2 does no harm. It's what makes plants grow. The atmosphere used to contain 3 times as much. Must have been those dinosaurs driving their Humvees.

Quote: "(b) of course. but the climate change scientists seem to think what's happening at the moment is mainly caused by us.
also, these scientists probably aren't in friends of the earth. neither am i."

Those so called scientists manipulated their data. It's fraud. Scientific value of that data is 0.0. They're not friends of the Earth. They're friends of money.

Like I said earlier, google for climategate.

Always ask yourself this when reading about some 'scientific' report: Who ordered it and who benifits from it financially? In other words: Follow the money.

[Philly Q]

1. Is climate change a fact of life? - Yup
2. Is our consumption of Earth's raw materials contributing to this? - Probably
3. Will going Green reverse climate change? - No
4. Is going Green still a valid thing to do in order to conserve scarce resources - Yes

Sums it up pretty nicely.

In my view, (and apologies if I offend anyone) - the one biggest thing that the world could do in order to slow down 4 is to control population growth - in 1950 there were about 2.5 Billion people on Earth - we now have more than 6 Billion!! - so we should be doing everything we can to REDUCE this number, rather than letting it increase.  I'll stop before I get on my really radical soap box about this one.....

I think that's very true, but would anyone (apart from China) have the balls (or lack of balls, maybe?  :lol: ) to actually do anything about it?


(Actually, I suppose I'm doing my bit  :| .  But I'd love to have kids should the opportunity arise.  Though I fear the responsibility.)