Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?

[mikeluke]

Phil.... I didn't say that Crichton was a great javascript:void(0);author just that there is some interesting stuff in the book...  Assuming that the scientific data presented actually comes from the sources mentioned and were not made up whilst reading Dan Brown...

:-)


Interesting argument about spending $100 from Afghan Dave and human welfare.

This is where my point of view is not very humanitarian not charitable and I apologise if it offends. I see it more as nature's way of population control - if we had 2.5 billion people in 1950 and over 6 billion in 2000, just will we feed them all in 2050?

Perhaps choice of speakers and pickups are safer topics?
 
:?

[Philly Q]

Phil.... I didn't say that Crichton was a great javascript:void(0);author just that there is some interesting stuff in the book...  Assuming that the scientific data presented actually comes from the sources mentioned and were not made up whilst reading Dan Brown...

Glad you cleared that up, Mike.  I'm sure there is some interesting stuff, but I couldn't cope with reading his tortured prose ever again.  

I read a summary of the book (on Wikipedia so it was probably all wrong).  Apparently he took a lot of stick about it from scientists (the evil data-manipulating bar-stewards) for inaccuracies and misleading information.  Shockingly, the literary reviews were unfavourable too (undoubtedly the critics were paid off by the scientists, with all those ill-gotten green gains of theirs).

The novel received the American Association of Petroleum Geologists (AAPG) 2006 Journalism Award. AAPG Communications director Larry Nation told the New York Times, "It is fiction, but it has the absolute ring of truth". The presentation of this award has been criticized as a promotion of the politics of the oil industry and for blurring the lines between fiction and journalism.

What a $%&#ing outrageous suggestion!  I blame the scientists.

[juansolo]

It's the $%&#ing hippies that have done it. This global warming bollocks. It was all going fine until they came along. So what do we have now? Electric $%&#ing cars, 'just drive 5 miles a less every day' (well that won't get me to work you salad addled cretin), energy saving this, CO2 that, and what do we get for it all? the worst winter in about 20 years. These are the same fools that'll be crying because their Piouses don't actually function in the snow, the very people they lambasted for having 'huge baby killing, pointless off-roaders' are having no bother at all, in their huge 'pointless' cars.

So brothers and sisters, I say to you; trade in that eco-shiteee and buy something with a $%&#ing great V8 in it, preferably a Range Rover. Make the planet warmer again!

[dave_mc]

^ i don't think one winter will affect the average that much.

also, parts of australia are in a heatwave at the moment.

ratrod: two questions.

1) what research have the global warming specialists done themselves? it's very easy to criticise others' work when you're doing none yourself (e.g. opposition parties in politics; creationists; etc.)

2) I agree that if every scientist ever involved in climate change has been manipulating the data then it's worthless, but from the looks of those emails it was only a few scientists, plus from all i've seen you (by that i mean climate change sceptics) are exagerating how much manipulating there has been. plus when exactly did climate change research start? do you think they've been manipuating it from the start? or more recently?

Plus you still haven't answered my questions about how exactly it could be a conspiracy and how exactly they can make more money from environmental issues, seeing as how they're making far more money currently with the status quo. i agree that not all conspiracies are wacko, but to have a valid point, it kinda has to make logical sense. i would also add that a lot of the big guns in the climate change sceptics group are in the oil/mining/whatever business, and they also stand to mke a ton of money if they can persuade people that cc isn't happening. it's not just the scientists who might be biased.

finally, i apologise if i've upset you, i still maintain you started with the insults (:lol: ), but if you scale them back, so will i. i don't appreciate being called (or having it implied) that i'm a sheep, or just blindly accepting the party line. I'm one of the most suspicious people i know (as i think/hope most of my other posts on here about politics will prove), nd i rarely agree with the government on anything (heck, i don't agree with its policies on cc for a start). I also think it's a bit hypocritical of you to imply that I'm the credulous one, when you uncritically accept what your "sources" say as a fact (or at least, that's what it looks like.

anyway, long story short, you stop acting like I'm credulous and I'll stop acting like you're a wacko. :D

EDIT: by the way, i went back through the posts, and as far as I can tell (check them if you wish), this was the first direct insult:

This feels like a discussion with a religious fundamentalist.

[Afghan Dave]

What's so insulting about being a religious fundamentalist?

Rowan Williams is a religious fundamentalist and he seems like an awfully nice chap.

[dave_mc]

well, apart from his idiotic comments about sharia law...

i'm also not sure you'd call him a fundamentalist, at least not in the way i understand the term. plus it's context- much like if someone called me a liberal, i wouldn't take it as an insult, but if i called, i dunno, bill o'reilly or sean hannity one they'd probably be a bit annoyed.

[Ratrod]

1. AFAIK all data is gathered from geological, meteorolgical research. Weather stations, ground and ice drillings, sattelites etc. Both parties probably have similar raw data.

2. Back in the early 80's I was told in school we were heading towards an ice age. 'Problems' back then were acid rain and later ozone. Somewhere around that time the greenhouse thing came along. I personally think they made a couple of mistakes. But instead of going "Oops! Sorry, we were wrong." They didn't want to loose face and feared they would lose their fundings.

Now then, the money making. First the scientists themselves. They scream the world is headed for a disaster, it's man's fault and man can stop it. But to know how to stop it, they need to do more research and for that they need more money.

Governments: They find it a great excuse to raise taxes. I mentioned some examples from Holland earlier. The latest addition to that is upping the VAT on meat because cows and pigs produce CO2.

Semi-government: My country is littered with committees and such. They do research, some are (sociological) think tanks, some develop ideas for durable technologies. Every now then they show something on TV or a local newspaper. Most of their ideas are from from realistic. Maybe the think Futurama and Star Trek are reality shows. The big kahuna's of those committees are ex-politicians, highly rated friends and members of red and green parties, celbrities, guys with grey beards and sandals who never been off campus grounds and the odd ex-astronaut. They probably couldn't have any other job. All heavily funded by tax payer's money.

Business: The last who jumped on the band wagon. But now they know how to sell their product. "Buy this new car. It takes less fuel, it's better for the environment." "Buy this new fridge, it uses less electricity." Philips jumped into the energy saving light bulb. They get some govt. funding and praise and make more profit on them. That those lights take more energy to produce and recycle and that they contain mercury doesn't seem to matter. Then there's companies that produce wind turbines, sun collectors and stuff. A booming market but only viable because of government support. Stores are filled with 'eco products' and I find it questionable wether or not they really are.

Save the planet, buy new stuff.

[Ratrod]

OMG!

I just had the laugh of the year. Nothing will be able to top this.

Someone in the Dutch Labour Party just put this on twitter: http://twitter.com/ChantalGillard/status/7724057954

Translation: If we don't act disasters like this on Haiti will continue to happen. We must stop climate change and improve the coasts of the islands.

[MrBump]

I'll say it fast so as to hopefully kill this stone dead.

STOP IT!

This is life and the world has always been this way... go and do something to help someone personally or make them smile.

Climate change?

Climates ARE SUPPOSED to $%&#ing change!!!!  :? :?

... and yet the thread rumbles on...

[Philly Q]

I'll say it fast so as to hopefully kill this stone dead.

STOP IT!

This is life and the world has always been this way... go and do something to help someone personally or make them smile.

Climate change?

Climates ARE SUPPOSED to $%&#ing change!!!!  :? :?

... and yet the thread rumbles on...

I think it's time we gave up on this - now that we've reached consensus  :| - and debated some simpler, less controversial topics.  I've got some suggestions:

Abortion
Capital punishment
Euthanasia
Same-sex marriage
Prison reform
The state benefits system
Islam

[Dmoney]

I'll say it fast so as to hopefully kill this stone dead.

STOP IT!

This is life and the world has always been this way... go and do something to help someone personally or make them smile.

Climate change?

Climates ARE SUPPOSED to $%&#ing change!!!!  :? :?

... and yet the thread rumbles on...

I think it's time we gave up on this - now that we've reached consensus  :| - and debated some simpler, less controversial topics.  I've got some suggestions:

Abortion
Capital punishment
Euthanasia
Same-sex marriage
Prison reform
The state benefits system
Islam

what are we debating? is that your list of weekend activities to mess about with?
and you want to know if we approve?

[Philly Q]

Yep, I try to fit in a minimum of three of those, every weekend.  Four if it's a bank holiday.

[Afghan Dave]

I totally condemn abortion in the context of a same sex islamic marriage - those bar-stewards should be hung and not kept in cushy jails at taxpayers expense... make the immigrants pay for it.

 :?

[Philly Q]

 :lol:

(but you missed euthanasia)

[Afghan Dave]

:lol:

(but you missed euthanasia)

Please could somebody just put me out of my misery?