choice for metal (primarily) pickups

[shogun89]

another noob to BKP i bet you guys are sick of us
anyway my life story is that ive used various active pickups exclusively since playing, ive had respect for particular models of passives but they would usually sound looser, more background noise, and the notes seemed to blend together far too much when using distortion. i got rid of emgs once the seymour duncan blackouts came out and they have been pretty damn awesome, i like the character and even the cleans (the BEST cleans ive ever heard were all from a gibson walnut hollowbody loaded with the old seymour duncan livewire classics... amazing pickups, just not enough output for metal). the blackouts are throaty and tight and good note separation, have been my go-tos since their initial release to the public.

anyway from all ive seen and heard from people ( i have a natural tendency not to blindly trust internet clips of guitar gear) it seems that bare knuckles are leaps and bounds ahead of all other passives and (hopefully) even my infatuation with actives. the reason im drawn to the sound of most active pickups is that they have a hi-fi sound with good note separation, and have a great output and the blackouts actually have great headroom and a lot less compression than the far too long monopolizing emgs. i would like to take the venture into bare knuckle pickups and see if i can find a new and permanent love affair (if they are worthy ;) )

i play lots of metal with fast but articulate single note runs and lots of unusual exotic chords and arpeggios that need lots of note-to-note separation (think meshuggah, children of bodom, black dahlia murder-esque) but with great throaty mid range expression and response. again, im looking for impeccable note-to-note separation, very hi-fi and articulate sound. i also play a lot of flamenco and speedy jazz for myself for fun, but i think high output pickups with high headroom and a good amp that wont breakup fast are the best combo, hence my likeness for the blackouts' cleans for this. in cleans and melting metal distortion, im looking for punchiness, authority and bite in the mix, with instantaneous note tracking and the absolute TIGHTEST bass response available. i play a baritone tuned to drop B (it sounds fantastico to thump that low B in percussive runs in flamenco and jazz, trust me) and i dont want the low end to be on a very tight leash, super controlled for fast runs and stop-gos, but not suffering a loss in articulation or volume.

im wondering what the differences are between the painkiller, warpig and nailbomb are, in tone, gain and the bottom end response. also, whats a c-pig i keep hearing about? a ceramic warpig im assuming?

im leaning more towards the painkiller because ive found ceramic magnets to be much tighter across the whole spectrum, and the cleans as well as brutal distortion dont have any flab or notes that bleed into each other. ive also heard that the warpig and nailbombs have a bigger, looser bass response which is not what i want. tight and loud and on my leash is what i want, just like my women... :)

and as for a neck pickup, id like fluid liquid leads and cleans from it, with clarity and a singing top end for cleans and solos. not so demanding on the bass response from the neck pickup as much as a bridge.

thanks TONS fellas, i love the internet purely for the fact that nutters like us can get together and rant and rave about tone amongst ourselves in tongues that befuddle the common man. ROCK ON ALL!!!!
shogun

[MDV]

TL:DR

J/K

Painkiller Cold sweat combo.

[MDV]

Oh, and welcome. Looks like you've done some research; good stuff.

[shogun89]

thanks mdv you seem to be the heavyweight here on these forums (and holeeeee sheeeit i didnt realize how long id ranted on until i went back and saw what you replied to....... my apologies to all who toiled through reading that novel. dayum.

yeah id been thinking the painkiller and cold sweat in the neck would be the most aggressive tight sound from the BKP and i just had a very trusted friend email me some studio quality soundclips of metal licks with painkillers with no post eq or anything so i trust my ear to them and hot diggity if they dont sound like they top any active ive ever heard. im thinking im sold on them...

i just want to garner what info i can to help others debating actives vs. BKPs, and see how many we can convert to be true believers in bare knuckle  power. so are the c-pig and c-bomb simply ceramic versions of the warpigs and nailbombs? how do those versions stand up to the painkiller?

[Zaned]

Hi,

what kind of a guitar are you going to put the pickups into? That'll make a huge difference  :)

Comparing the Painkiller to the C-Pig (that's a ceramic warpig, yes) and C-bomb (ceramic nailmbomb, yes), the Painkiller has more mids than either of them. Very tight on the bottom, of which the C-Pig has the most. 

-Zaned

[MDV]

thanks mdv you seem to be the heavyweight here on these forums (and holeeeee sheeeit i didnt realize how long id ranted on until i went back and saw what you replied to....... my apologies to all who toiled through reading that novel. dayum.

yeah id been thinking the painkiller and cold sweat in the neck would be the most aggressive tight sound from the BKP and i just had a very trusted friend email me some studio quality soundclips of metal licks with painkillers with no post eq or anything so i trust my ear to them and hot diggity if they dont sound like they top any active ive ever heard. im thinking im sold on them...

i just want to garner what info i can to help others debating actives vs. BKPs, and see how many we can convert to be true believers in bare knuckle  power. so are the c-pig and c-bomb simply ceramic versions of the warpigs and nailbombs? how do those versions stand up to the painkiller?

I do like me some metal, its true.

The c-pig and c-bomb are ceramic versions, yes.

If you had only said tightness, I'd have recommended the c-bomb, but its top end is a bit more laid back and it can blur notes in chords together a bit more. The PK is still very tight (in a balanced guitar - it will cut through a dark/bassy guitar but wont be as tight as a c-bomb). The c-bomb still has lots of definition, but not as much.

C-bombs a little hotter, a little more compressed, a little darker, less mids (quite ballanced EQ) and has a sweeter top end than most ceramics. Its my second favourite pickup, actually, after a custom BK Tim made me. Some days its still my favourite.

C-Pigs are much more compressed, very, very aggressive, grindier in the mids but they dont have as much of them as the PK (similar to the NB, imo), tight bass but not surgically so. Real throaty growl to them, very sizzly top end. Gain for $%&#ing years. Nutter of a pickup, and my 4th favourite BK, but I stopped using them because that much gain, compression and low end hitting the preamp works against clarity and definition (for very fast, precise uber-thrash and death metal-y stuff thats part of my playing).

[Herbie the Rad Dorklift]

I love my Miracle Man :)

[shogun89]

fantastic, fantastic info. sounds like the c-pig seems more akin to an "active" tone for those hunting for it, but i like more expressiveness, which is why the PK still seems like the best choice for me. the c-bomb sounds to pickups what mahogany is to wood-big full bottom, compressed mids and smooth highs. the guitar this is going is is a baritone maple through with mahogany wings, on its way to being built and shipped to me in the next month or so. i think the maple and a PK will have killer clarity, tightness and definition, and when i want to roll off the highs thats what a neck pickup or prescence control is for.

sounds like a c-bomb would be sweet at the neck for legato and sweep playing, but from what ive heard about the miracle man, it may be too scooped, or not enough mids for my taste. i play lots of death metal but to me, the best amps out there should sound sick with the mids scooped AND cranked (which is what i do, to hear more note definition and to cut through mixes) which is why the painkillers mids and clarity are winning it out over the c-bombs and c-pigs. im not too much worried about the amount of gain on tap, i rarely crank my gain, i prize tone&notes over distortion. weird for a metal player, i rarely turn my gain past noon on most amps i play through, so ive got reserves if theres a drop in gain compared to blackouts.

 im getting excited and antsy to join the BKP family. oh as far as the output and gain go, how do these BKP models compare to emgs and blackouts? just another curiosity

[Zaned]

Maple neck-through and baritone..in a neck-through, the neck wood tends to dominate tonewise, and maple has a tight tone with a lot of midrange and a quick attack. Mahogany changes the tone, but also it has a lot of midrange.  What's the fretboard wood btw?

I'd e-mail Tim for his suggestion! He often suggest a little lower output pickups for baritones, as the strings tend to be bigger. The suggestion might be surprising :)

-Zaned

[shogun89]

lol yeah i know the tonal qualities of the guitar, the reason i went for the maple neck through in lieu of an all mahogany neck through is that while mahogany is an amazing tone, ive found the midrange is a little compressed, not in a bad way, but gives it a little squish and sizzle, acoustically. thats just me, so for the clarity and cutting notes all through the spectrum, i opted for a maple neck through. ebony fingerboard, by the way.

ill definitely see if i can email or get ahold of tim and probably just copy and paste the exact post i originally put up and see what hes got up his sleeves.
mdv, youve got a custom pickup??? cmon man brag about it and show it off on here, lets see whats possible and what specs you got thrown in there for ya, that is sick!

[psalterium]

Do not overlook CS bridge... When it comes to single notes separation it's a great choice. More like an all-around high-output pickup than a metal pickup, though.

[MDV]

I havent tried blackouts, but all these BKs we're talking about here make an 81 sound like a buzzy, fizzy toy.

The custom "Aftermath" is here

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19791.0

[shogun89]

im definitely looking at the Cold Sweat for the neck position to bring some balance to the bridge picku, exactly for that reason of note separation so the neck will get super fluid and percussive. the Aftermath sounds $%&#ing devastating... powerball tones usually dont grow on me too much just cuz they are super saturated liquidy gain and im looking for super dry (ive got a modded Savage 120  :D), sounds like an engl with touch of vht/fryette flavor. but just from that song i could see how the aftermath is much more grindy and brutally aggressive in the midrange.

an amazing tone mdv. congrats. in relation to what id look for, just a tad TOO grindy in the midrange, its more growling than biting if that makes sense. the bass sounds so massive, so freakishly huge. ive been bantering back and forth with nick from theaxepalace and hes absolutely awesome, the multiple emails i sent him were much much longer than the posts here hahaha poor guy, i envy him and his job doing that though. weve got it narrowed down to a c-pig or a painkiller in the bridge and a Cold Sweat in the neck.

[MDV]

Go for the C-Bombs then. They're left on that track. You can expect a PK to be a bit less grindy, but sort of spikier in the mids with more high mid chime and attack than The Aftermath. The C-Bomb is the smoothest of the 3 by far. -pig is somewhere in between c-bomb and PK in those terms.

An old PK clip, with very different equipent (the tones are NOT to be compared directly with Memento Mori) and a c-pig clip with the same gear, slightly  different settings but not a world apart. Some eqing was done in the DAW to the second one, but nothing drastic, so they are moderately comparable if you just listen to the voicing. Please excuse the poorer sound and mixing; I knew even less about it when I made these (hard panning harmonies over hard panned rhythms? seriously...and thats just one thing of many.....n000000b!)

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13664.0

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13249.0

[MDV]

Oh, the guitar with the PK (all the pk clip) cpig (all the cipig one) and cbomb (left on the c-bomb/aftermath clip) is the same guitar.