Help in choosing a budget jazz guitar.

[kevinr]

I need a little help from the forum jazzers, I wish to buy a budget archtop (16inch) I have narrowed it down to,Epiphone Emperor II, Ibanez AF75 or Godin 5th Ave CW, I would love to buy a  big name guitar, but can't really see myself spending that sort of money (yet) I have a set of Stormy  Mondays waiting to be fitted if I buy a humbucker fitted guitar.

[Twinfan]

Calling "Fourth Feline".........

[tomjackson]

I've only played a normal 5th Ave but I found it quite bright, nice but not very deep and rich like some archtops.  May be it was the wild cherry.  More acoustic than acoustic archtop.

Fourth Feline says the Ibanez Archtops are very good, at the price they look a bargain.

I've not tried the Epiphone but it certainly looks the part.

Have you thought of Peerless, they are definitely worth checking out.

[timski]

Presumably you have played the 3 guitars you mentioned...

[kevinr]

I have not played any on the list, I have only played the more expensive brands and I just can't spend that sort of money for something that I will not take to a gig, I will end up buying something from ebay I suppose, those three come up for sale frequently.

[Fourth Feline]

Hiya kevin,

I have recently aquired an AF75, and put my B.K.P 'Stormy Mondays ' in it.  It has turned out the best quality sub £ 300 guitar I have tried or owned . I have tried Tanglewood ( TH502 - 335 copy) a 'Vintage' VSA575 -and Ibanez AF75. whilst they all set up nicely, The Vintage and Ibanez were the best, and the best of the best at this price ( regarding build quality, factory fit hardware - and resilient finish e.t.c ) was the Ibanez AF75.  I have left a couple of 'Sound clips' - using the AF75 in the Player's section of the forum. one using Alnico IV magnet 'Sormy Mondays' - and laterly, the same tune using AII types.

I have not tried a Peerless, but at less than half the price of a Peerless, The AF75   fulfils all my needs very well. I also prefer the neck on the Ibanez, as it is wider than the Gibson type ( for easier chord fingering up the neck ) and has a nice neck volute.  Whilst I agree that trying a guitar first is a great idea, we no longer have any 'proper' guitar shops where I live, and internet ordering has proved very satisfactory.

I just see ( without visible disturbing the guitar , regarding return policies ) if the bridge could lower enough to make the strings touch the frets, and that the truss rod is working.

The Ibanez pickups in the AF75 are ceramic types, but as most of these ''Budget Jazz' guitars are aimed at a wider Jazz / Rockabilly / Rock market, they are not as detailed , warm , responsive and airy as B.K.P .

My Favourite B.K.P for this job is the 'Manhattans' ( made to order). I have also put some sound clips of the Manhattans in the 'Players'  section.

Both the Vintage VSA575 and Ibanez AF75 set up to about 0.6 -0.75 mm ( about 1/32 " ) at the 12th fret. Both are (now ) strung with T.I Be-bop 14s. The soundclips of the 'Manhattans' in my 'pimped' Vintage VSA575 were made using T.I Swing 12s. finally the photographs. Please note that the AF75 was photographed whilst I was experimenting with my BKP 'Mississipi Queens'. M.Qs are a great assertive and fat sounding pickup, BUT as you may gather from my sound clips, not detailed enough for the stuff I do.





 :)

 

[Ratrod]

Dean Palomino.

[timski]

Nice tailpiece...mmm
I hope that's a 5 way switch

[dheim]

i'm not exactly a jazz player, and my only experience with jazz guitars belongs to the loooooong gone days when i took some guitar lesson...
anyway, even if i'm probably the last person on earth who could advice you, i have sweet memories of my teacher's Ibanez AS... great neck, i could play better on that one than on the Fender Strato that i owned at the time... and it sounded much better too.

[Deadstar]

Not exactly a jazzer either myself but I have a Godin 5th Ave. the older model with a neck pickup only, tis a great player neck is just divine; smooth as silk and not overtight even with heavy strings.

Never seen them before the day I walked in the shop and fell in love - total impulse buy.

However, I'm using for more of an acoustic/electric crossover sound to get and interesting sound rather than the traditional type of jazz tone you might be looking for, put a set of DR Zebras (half nickel, half phosphor bronze) on then mic it up and use the pickup through a good clean amp sounds sparkly and warm, but drive it through some good tube overdrive and it gets a cool trashy vibe to it. Great for bowing too with some flats on. However this is probably not for you.

[Fourth Feline]

I also forgot to mention that  some years ago  I had a ( Korean ) Epiphone Joe Pass. Compared to the Ibanez, the headstock inlays and general cosmetics looked cheap. It was also stiffer to play than either Ibanez or Vintage, despite having a short ( 24.75" ) scale and being given a  thorough set up and fret dress.

Deadstar raises an interesting point / crteria, in that on the Jazz forums, folks love the build quality of the Godin '5th avenue ' series, but also remark that it sounds brighter - and better given to a lively acoustic tone. Perhaps more 'Gypsy Jazz' and Martin Taylor type sounds. The demos I have seen, quickly 'morph' into more acoustic Blues and / or grungy crossover style - than smoooooth Jazz. Highly thought of - but not your typical darker Jazz sound .

I did like the aesthetics and apparent build quality  of the Dean Palomino that Ratrod posted, but too many pickups for my rather conservative tastes...  :lol:

(*Edit" )
Having just visited the 'Dean' website, the darker sunburst one looks restrained enough to buy me over - and the fretboard inlays, headstock, tailpiece and many other aspects look lovely. Not to replace any of my existing Jazzers, but worthy of praise and consideration in it's own right - ( subject to neck shape, action  and feel of course ).  :)

[timski]

I have the Godin Kingpin (non-cutaway with 1 P90 [in my case a custom wound BK alnico 3 job] in the neck position).
Whilst it does have a more gypsy/acoustic sound acoustically (especially strung with roundwounds), once plugged in it will easily give you the traditional darker jazz tones, plus a host more as the P90 allows brighter, crisper sounds that humbuckers cannot usually create. Strung with flatwounds it can go into that muffled Pat Metheny/Jim Hall territory.
I agree with FF that it would not be the guitar to get for 'smooth' jazz sounds though.

What about the Epiphone Broadway, as played by Kenny Burrell? That's another great-looking, and excellent value jazz-box.
Another option would be to get a vintage archtop acoustic (such as a 1960s Hofner President: often for sale for less than £500) and add a floating mini-humbucker (such as one made by Kent Armstrong - BK don't make one...yet).
An easy, and fully reversible mod that will give you a stunningly good playing guitar that looks the part far more than any modern day far-eastern affair and will keep, or even go up in value.

[kevinr]

Thanks for all the views, it has ruled out the Godin as I do want that smooth jazz sound, what has come up for sale is a new Greg Bennett JZ2 La Salle I know that it is a 17 inch body which is a shame (only because it is so big) they do receive good reviews, and the price is ok, anyone played one?

[Fourth Feline]

Thanks for all the views, it has ruled out the Godin as I do want that smooth jazz sound, what has come up for sale is a new Greg Bennett JZ2 La Salle I know that it is a 17 inch body which is a shame (only because it is so big) they do receive good reviews, and the price is ok, anyone played one?

It does not appear to be available here in the U.K. - so it's hard to judge the current range of competitive prices ; but the non vibrato ones look very nice, have Grover tuners as standard, and are noted for setting up easily on 'Harmony Central reviews'. The ability to be set up great, being a top criteria. They look like a very nice range, and the cosmetics appear more 'Boutique'. Considering the only noted weak pots , caps, e.t.c - tend to get replaced by us anyway, the overall prospect looks very good. The price ( In G.B.P ) would decide for me if it is a Heavyweight contender at the lowest price category, or too close to the Peerless guitars to rule those out too.

I would be tempted to get a 17" as my preference, if buying only one Jazz guitar only  - as it fixes the Jazz attitude  in one's mind and practice, sound lovely - and indicate the very special nature if this item in your armoury. The 'Vintage' one in the photos above is a 17" / 3" depth, if you compare it to the AF75 photo which is  16"  width / 3" depth.  Yes, the Ibanez is easier to sit practicing with, or doing a 'stood up' Gig with - But the 17" would be my choice for an elegant sat down / after dinner type of presentation. The big one looks like The Queen, and the smaller one - a Princess.

It is amazing however,  how dramatic a difference the extra inch makes to the perceived size and handling.

[kevinr]

This particular one that is for sale is a honey/natural spruce top with quilted back and sides, it does look very nice and is a non trem model, the price is $799 AUD which is about what I would have to pay for a Epi JP or Iby AF75, and they would both be second hand! I can imagine that my set of Stormys (A2)would sound great in it and pots and caps are at hand, after years of solid bodys a 17 incher we feel like a double bass!