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Author Topic: Teach me about valve amp types!  (Read 8818 times)

Fourth Feline

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2010, 10:15:53 AM »

Peaver Re-Valver :  I really tried to like this, it is dynamic but it's really, really, harsh and Very noisy indeed. Of course it may be really accurate and Peavey's higher gain amps are like that. The Classic 30 model was very pleasant though.

Does it also model the valve rattle and the sound of your car going to the repair shop ?





( Sorry chaps, only joking - as the Classic 20, and 30 have sounded pleasant in real life).  



« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 10:20:41 AM by Fourth Feline »

timski

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2010, 10:25:36 AM »
This is a great book for introducing a wide variety of amp sounds from the 40s to the present day. It includes an excellent CD with lots of demos.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guitar-Rigs-Classic-Amp-Combinations/dp/0879308516/ref=pd_sim_b_5

cerpintaxt

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2010, 11:20:03 AM »
To me, the best current tool to learn about all this is just IKMultimedia Amplitube 3 software.
Not all the iconic amps are included but, there are a bunch.
Not all the iconic effect pedals are included but, there are a bunch.
Not all the iconic rack effects are included but, there are a bunch.

This plugin or standalone program, allows you to:

  • Test entire rigs, to tame the sound of certain song or artist
  • Tweak the amp models, changing the pre-amp, tone stack and power amp sections
  • Pair it with alternative cabs/speakers
  • Use different well known virtual studio mikes, placing them anywhere in the space
  • Arrange the pedalboard in different ways, so it's easy to see how the combination of certain pedals affect the sound, way more easy that do it physically
  • Probably you will find more uses

All this let you better obtain a "record-hit" sound.
The real thing is that the most of hits you heard, aren't just pure amp/effects. They are really processed and, at the beginning of the chain, there are the mikes. So, this program let's you also learn about how the placement of mikes affect to the sound also.

Now that sounds like a plan!

dave_mc

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2010, 08:15:52 PM »
This is a great book for introducing a wide variety of amp sounds from the 40s to the present day. It includes an excellent CD with lots of demos.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guitar-Rigs-Classic-Amp-Combinations/dp/0879308516/ref=pd_sim_b_5

i didn't think it was as good as some of his other books (i pretty much have them all, now). Some of that might be because I got his other books first, so there was a lot of overlap, but i reckon the amp book is much better for telling you about amps. No CD, though.

also, he seems to have a thing about ignoring anything vaguely modern. I like classic rock and blues as much as anyone, but when you buy a book about supposedly "classic rigs", and there's no rectifier, no jcm800, etc. etc. etc. It's like rock music stopped in the mid 70s, if not the late 60s (SRV notwithstanding). And who even listens to surf any more, let alone even knows what it is?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying surf and stuff like that shouldn't be in there (i have nothing against surf), but when you're leaving out stuff that a good 50% (at least, based on what i see on guitar forums, not to mention music shops) of new players want to see covered, there's something wrong. and two chapters on jazz? I mean, I love jazz, but really. There's one cursory chapter at the end entitled "brit rock to classic metal" where, if i remember correctly (it's a while since I read it, so apologies if I'm misrepresenting it), it tells you pete townshend's rig for about 5 pages, and then warns you that modern high gain amps are evil. I still haven't seen any mention of "classic metal" in that chapter, let alone anything vaguely approaching modern.

Sorry for the rant, but if you're writing a book claiming to cover the classic rigs, you should probably cover them all. If you're not comfortable or familiar with certain rigs which anyone with any sense would still deem "classic", then either (a) you should hire someone who can write those chapters or (b) maybe not write the book at all. Information books shouldn't really be home to personal biases...

:)

jpfamps

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2010, 08:26:06 PM »
And who even listens to surf any more, let alone even knows what it is?

I listen too and indeed (attempt to) play Surf!

Don't tell me this forum is full of hodads.


dave_mc

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2010, 07:40:24 PM »
i was being a bit facetious about the surf thing, as i said, i don't have a problem with its being in there. I do have a problem with there being two jazz chapters, and no chapter on anything heavier than the who.

i have no idea what a hodad is :lol:

jpfamps

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2010, 09:23:12 PM »
i have no idea what a hodad is :lol:

Thus, I rest my case.

Two chapters on jazz! Nice!

Fourth Feline

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2010, 10:32:30 PM »
I do have a problem with there being two jazz chapters ...

Wow ! You mean there are other styles out there too ?   :lol:



( " Nice " Jazz Club reference there JPF )  8)

dave_mc

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2010, 07:56:15 PM »
"shitee"

:lol:

EDIT: just figured out what i hodad is. I've never posed as a surfer in my life... :lol:

Neemo

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2010, 10:16:23 AM »
To me, there are few basic types of valve amps. I come from a metal background so that affects the way I look at the following...

1. Marshall

The most known and one of the most popular amp makers ever. Marshall has a really organic grit. It really grinds and you can adjust it anyway you like, it'll always have that signature marshall tone (which some prefer, some don't). The tone itself is a bit tight, like perfect for hard rock-type of stuff but not in it's comfort zone in heavier music. Warm cleans that get the job done, nothing earth-shattering. I think most still buy Marshalls for the name and logo, dunno, to me they have never really shined but then again, I don't play that much classic rock or that kind of stuff. There are of course other amp makers that also fall into the marshall-tone category, from what I hear Splawn is one of the more popular and promising ones.

On a curious note, Nile has recorded some wicked tones on DSL100s but they have this whole different sound world going...


2. Boogie

Here we have two types of tones actually. The Mark and the Recto. These are two different beasts altogether. The Mark is a bit more like a Marshall but it takes the organic feel a leap further and while the Marshall can grind, it feels more like a soft sizzle compared to Mark series. Mark series allow you to maintain a really responsive and organic tone but still take it to the extremes. The result is a seriously tight metal crunch that has a really meaty and aggressive tone.

The Recto of course is one of the most easily indentifiable. A tight sizzle in the top end and a larger-than-earth bass thump that you can feel in the chest. No wonder Mesa has a huge array of amps in the rectifier series. They are a bit of a tricky beast to tame since so much bass can easily turn flabby without some precautions. A booster pedal is recommended here to cut the bass from the signal coming from the pickups and to compress it a little to make Recto deliver a bone-crushing wall of sound. Rammstein would be a good example what the recto can do.

Diezel I believe falls a bit into this category, like a hotrodded recto that costs an arm and a leg.


3. German robots

This is a debatable category, but let me share my insight.

ENGL, Bogner (Uberschall mostly) etc. What they have going is a sizzly and tight bass thump, minus the character and organic tone. Now this isn't necessarily a bad thing. If I needed a tone that is so balls to the wall that it's ridiculous, ENGL would be one of my top choices. It has a tight metal crunch written all over it. I myself prefer the mesa mark series but ENGL can take a sizzly bass thump -esque tone and take it beyond, it won't have the same organic and woody tone that comes from the guitar as in mesa and marshall toned amps, but you can get a grind happening that'll pulverize small animals. The clean is *very clean* rightly according to the german engineering -spirit, it's almost too clean, massive headroom here. Overall the German robots are very cold and not digital but a bit solid stateish at least that still have the powerful tone of valves.

There of course are exceptions as in everything. I've been hearing a lot of great things about the Invader for example having a lot of character and tonal capability.


4. The face(plate)less ones

These are amps from mostly boutique amp manufacturers and some of the less popular but big companies. It's the amp type that you just can't get your head around. It's *ok* and *nice* here and there but there's no wow-factor or anything that jumps out at you. It'll probably get the job done and with careful tweaking and mic positioning you can record some nice tones but these are not the tools for making your signature tone. Now I can't go naming that many amps extensively since I've only had my fair share of amps to play with but Hughes & Kettner are one that have never appealed to me in any special way.


There are a lot of unique tones in the amp world but most of the amps' voicings can be categorized like this. While it's good to hunt for an amp that gets the magic happening for you it's also good to know what ballpark you should be looking in. Hope this helps.


ps. 5. Koch = fuzz pedal that looks like an amp
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 10:20:37 AM by Neemo »
slow music for slow people

hermetico

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2010, 10:26:43 AM »
ps. 5. Koch = fuzz pedal that looks like an amp

Did you ever heard a Koch Studiotone re-valved and with an Orange PP112 cab (2x12)?
Not for metal stuff but, versatile as hell and really useful for studio applications.

Neemo

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2010, 08:32:59 PM »
ps. 5. Koch = fuzz pedal that looks like an amp

Did you ever heard a Koch Studiotone re-valved and with an Orange PP112 cab (2x12)?
Not for metal stuff but, versatile as hell and really useful for studio applications.

No I haven't actually. I've tried out a few kochs but it's possible that I've only come across the monday batch ones.  :P
slow music for slow people

Prawnik

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2010, 08:12:51 AM »
I still wanna know what a "hodad" is.

Matt77

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2010, 09:50:36 AM »
I think it's like mods and rockers
surfers and hodad's
Hodad's being the guys with the hotrods and greased hair

cerpintaxt

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Re: Teach me about valve amp types!
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2010, 10:40:30 AM »
I think it essentially means "Your daughter's a dirty stinking hoare"  :lol:

Thanks all for the amp info btw! Been checking out loads of stuff on the 'net. Decided the Marshall "plexi" tone is the one i like most.

Also found somewhere that sells DIY amp kits, and their 18W plexi looks rather tempting for a later date!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 10:42:56 AM by cerpintaxt »