Need new preamp valves

[Twinfan]

The TAD stuff looks a lot like rebadged JJs............

[Dmoney]

i just decided to try one of them fancy philips 12AX7's in my SLO build, ordered some JJ's too as the odd crackle from my amp may be from my stock of used/spare 12AX7's of various types.

TAD's valves have got better than they used to be right?

[Denim n Leather]

The TAD stuff looks a lot like rebadged JJs............

They're not. They're Chinese-made junk.

[_tom_]

I have TADs in the Laney at the minute. Sound ok but I've heard there are better options for a GH. I had a JAN/Philips 5751 in V1 for a bit which took some of the gain away but gave a smoother sound. Sadly it died :(

How about a Tung Sol in V1 then JJs in V2+3? All 12AX7s/ECC83s..

Power amp valves are Svet. Winged C EL34s btw, had em in about 2 years but only had the amp at proper volume for probably about a month in total so they should still be ok?

[Denim n Leather]

=C= are the closest you can get to a modern-made Mullard. Use 'em until they die!

There are lots of inexpensive 5751s out there if you look. JAN Philips can be had at a reasonable price, less so the GE 5751 (I have GEs in the V1 slot of both of my gigging amps).

If you're gonna go modern 12AX7, just go with  JJs. They're inexpensive enough to get an extra one in case you have reliability issues.

[Denim n Leather]

Oh, another option is to get Tonegrinders, but I think they will be cost-prohibitive.

[Dmoney]

Oh, another option is to get Tonegrinders, but I think they will be cost-prohibitive.

I would never get those things.

its not a new idea, and whatever that guy has inside them doesn't warrant the cost.

I read a huge thread someone in work put me onto... hifi nerds/hi end tube hifi builders discussing this product. nobody could find a patent for it, they guy himself won't give an accurate picture of how it works (which I guess is fair), but its not going to be anything more than some solid state circuitry that is defo not worth $100. (yes, standard tonegrinders are $89 and custom ones are $99)

the audio samples ive heard are all tonegrinders in V1 and then valves throughtout, whatever amp. I don't think they can be used in certain amps, maybe ones with higher plate voltages for the preamp valves.

It all sounds a bit too much like cobwebs and magic to me. the fetron has been around a long time. I guess a lot of work was put into solid state replacement on tubes, and this guy has something magical (and expensive) that emulates a tube that nobody else has been able to make?

I just don't buy it. I emailed him once though to find out more and I didn't find out anything. just sales pitch.

best we could figure out in work, is that he has some kind of a FET arrangement probably set in epoxy in a plastic tube shaped casing.

[Denim n Leather]

I own a set of Tonegrinders and use em. They are fantastic. I also own (and have used) lots of NOS and vintage valves. Each have their place.

The tonegrinders are not plastic and are not 'fake' valves. They are phenomenally well made, way better construction than any glass valves I've ever owned.

I honestly don' t know WHAT they are. But they sound great and work, unlike the "Mullard", Tung Sol, Electro-Harmonix, TAD, etc etc which are just a waste of money.

[Dmoney]

My understanding was they are solid state. immune to microphonics? immune to degradation from mechanical rattle? certainly points to solid state right? do they get hot? the outer may act as a heat sync for whatever is inside.

they might work but from the tone samples on the site, I don't think they are better (i dont fully trust tone samples though. sometimes they make good things sound bad). you might like em, and with everything else tone wise, thats cool.

i would be interested in trying one for sure. but id also like to tear one apart.

a good 12AX7 can be pretty inexpensive and can last a LONG time. even if they fail a decent replacement can be found easily. I did some maths just based on decent sounding current production tubes, and the cost of one tonegrinder over here would keep me in tubes for some crazy amount of years given how often they break down on me.

I did send all my questions and concerns to the guy at wattgrinder after our initial discussion and he never answered any of them.

so in conclusion i find them interesting. its good to know you have experience with them, but for the price they are i'll never buy one.

plus i agree. I had a new mullard come to me and it was microphonic. i also don't like tong sol, EH, or TAD.
I've never had a broken or microphonic JJ 12AX7 yet.

[Elliot]

the gold pin thing is cr@p as is the cryo thing - the only benefit gold pins may give is that the pins wont oxidise in the sockets (which is cured by pulling the valve out and re-inserting it).  Sound wise there is no difference.

Personally, I use NOS Philips JAN 12AX7s and 5751s in V1 - they are easy to get on ebay, as almost as cheap as new valves.  Failing that I personally like the sound of New Sensor (i.e. Russian) 'Mullards'.  

But to be honest given you've had your pre-amp valves for 3 years, they shouldn't be anyway near burnt out yet.  Better to change your power amp valves.

[Denim n Leather]

given you've had your pre-amp valves for 3 years, they shouldn't be anyway near burnt out yet.  Better to change your power amp valves.

Maybe. Depends on how hard you push the preamp valves. A strong boost into V1 can eat up preamp valves with a quickness.

[Dmoney]

the gold pin thing is cr@p as is the cryo thing - the only benefit gold pins may give is that the pins wont oxidise in the sockets (which is cured by pulling the valve out and re-inserting it).  Sound wise there is no difference.

I replaced a standard JJ in V1 in a dual rec with a gold pin JJ. There was a very big difference. im not on about microphonics. just in tone. It took some horrible fizz right out the amp.

I have a new 'mullard' kicking around and an old one in V1 on my sommatone. The older one is constructed differently.
the new one was microphonic. I lashed it out. the sommatone outlaw is incredibly sensitive to whatever you put in V1, its really cool to mess with that and really hear the difference in tubes.

[Oli]

The TAD stuff looks a lot like rebadged JJs............

They're not. They're Chinese-made junk.

I disagree, just because they're Chinese made, is not an indication of their quality-- I think i've had more problems with JJ preamp valves, than any other manufacturer. TAD valves are selected from whichever source they come from, and i've had no issues with them at all.

I keep meaning to do a 12ax7 shootout/test with some of our test gear at work.... maybe i'll have to try and get hold of some valves from various manufacturers and come up with data to compare them all-- might be quite an interesting experiment?

[Denim n Leather]

The TAD stuff looks a lot like rebadged JJs............

They're not. They're Chinese-made junk.

I disagree, just because they're Chinese made, is not an indication of their quality--

You misquote me. They are junk. They are made in China. I never said that they are junk BECAUSE they're made in China. They would be junk if they were made here in the US.

Junk is junk!

The only reason their country of origin came up is because Twinfan said they look like rebranded JJs, which are not made in China and, incidently, are NOT junk.

[HTH AMPS]

I know HTH will disagree, but I'm very happy with good old JJs.  A regular set of 3 should be fine, or if you want to try a gold pin do what I do and go for one in V1, and regular JJs for V2 and V3.

Oh, and I use HotRox  :)

ha ha, am I that predictable?  :lol:

Its no secret that I don't like JJ valves, I find their ECC83 to be flat, boring, totally uninspiring and able to make an otherwise good amp sound like sh*t.  Last time I used the EH ECC83, I thought it was a much better valve than the JJ.

I always tell people to get NOS (or part-used) valves - Mullard, Brimar, Mazda, RCA, GE, Siemens - there are any number of great old ECC83s you can pick up on ebay for the same price as you'd pay for current production stuff.

I find it surprising that you (Dave) are happy with JJ valves - you spend a fortune on guitars/pickups/amps/speakers then kill the tone with those valves.  Have you tried some NOS preamp valves in your Orion? - I bet it would take that amp to a new level.

Personally, I find that good valves make/break an amp's tone.

Oh, and I'm with Dave on Hotrox - never had a problem with them and their pricing beats Watford Valves.