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Author Topic: EL 84 recommendations  (Read 8296 times)

hermetico

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2010, 06:29:14 PM »
I run a repair workshop and most customers don't want to spend £20 on an EL84.

Also I  order 50-100 pieces at a time, so I need to be confident that the valves I am buying will be reliable, which is why I've stuck with Sovtek and JJ valves after a brief flirtation with EH.

Furthermore getting large amounts of Mullards in the UK is problematic.

In fact if it wasn't for the issues with the diameter of the glass enevlope I would probably just stock Sovteks.


 :lol:
That's funny. 60% of the tone is on the amp but, people preferes to swap stock pickups with high-end pickups, change tremolo blocks, expensive caps, expensive pots, locking keys and a bunch of other expensive mods but, wants to save in a few valves.
I guess, someone that is buying BK pickups is chasing the tone so, he would pay the difference IF there is a clear improvement that makes worth it.

But you gave me the reason why amp builders are usually deliverying Sovtek, Svetlana and JJ valves in their amps.
Reliability first, money second and then, tone.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 06:30:50 PM by hermetico »

sjwebb90

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2010, 07:40:32 PM »

I have been using JJ El84 (correctly biased) in my Cornford Hellcat for a number of years and had no issues with micophonics. Nice chimey top end and plenty of body. In my opinion JJ's suits this particular amp nicely over the Sovteks that it came with.

Choice of valves is usually down to personal preference and what you are trying to get out of the amp.
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hermetico

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2010, 12:33:46 AM »
Choice of valves is usually down to personal preference and what you are trying to get out of the amp.
Absolutelly agree.
There's no short path.

Andrew W

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2010, 08:17:14 AM »
I've just received an e-mail from TAD to let me know that a "Mullard", JJ, Gold Lion and a mysterious, military spec Russian EL84 are on their way to me now.  I thought I'd order a small selection in the spirit of inquiry to see how much difference I can hear.  If I can, I'll try and do some recording, that may take a while though.

Again, thanks so much for the helpful replies.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 09:51:05 AM by Andrew W »

martinw

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2010, 09:30:56 AM »
But you gave me the reason why amp builders are usually deliverying Sovtek, Svetlana and JJ valves in their amps.
Reliability first, money second and then, tone.

Certainly not true in my case. I don't want to keep going on, but I have to refute this.
Although clearly reliability should be a given. Hands up anyone who wants a valve which gives great tone.....for a while? Didn't think so.

In one breath you say that valve choice is personal, then in the next you make the above statement which carries the assumption that everyone agrees with your personal tone choices.

I select valves based on all three criteria, as a balance, but the aural qualities of a valve for me are the overriding issue. They MUST sound good.
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jpfamps

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2010, 11:40:10 AM »
But you gave me the reason why amp builders are usually deliverying Sovtek, Svetlana and JJ valves in their amps.
Reliability first, money second and then, tone.

Certainly not true in my case. I don't want to keep going on, but I have to refute this.
Although clearly reliability should be a given. Hands up anyone who wants a valve which gives great tone.....for a while? Didn't think so.

In one breath you say that valve choice is personal, then in the next you make the above statement which carries the assumption that everyone agrees with your personal tone choices.

I select valves based on all three criteria, as a balance, but the aural qualities of a valve for me are the overriding issue. They MUST sound good.

I'd agree with this 100%.


Twinfan

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2010, 11:47:54 AM »
Yep, me too!  I want something that sounds good that I can rely on.

hermetico

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2010, 12:40:50 PM »
I've just received an e-mail from TAD to let me know that a "Mullard", JJ, Gold Lion and a mysterious, military spec Russian EL84 are on their way to me now.  I thought I'd order a small selection in the spirit of inquiry to see how much difference I can hear.  If I can, I'll try and do some recording, that may take a while though.

Again, thanks so much for the helpful replies.

That military spec Russian EL84 is the TAD EL84-M, a thick bottle, reliable but, sterile sounding. In principle, it will help you only in the case that you have serious microphonics issues. Plain and whithout character.
I didn't like it in my amps but, who knows it!. It can work in your.

hermetico

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2010, 01:21:24 PM »
But you gave me the reason why amp builders are usually deliverying Sovtek, Svetlana and JJ valves in their amps.
Reliability first, money second and then, tone.

Certainly not true in my case. I don't want to keep going on, but I have to refute this.
Although clearly reliability should be a given. Hands up anyone who wants a valve which gives great tone.....for a while? Didn't think so.

In one breath you say that valve choice is personal, then in the next you make the above statement which carries the assumption that everyone agrees with your personal tone choices.

I select valves based on all three criteria, as a balance, but the aural qualities of a valve for me are the overriding issue. They MUST sound good.
Me neither wanted a valve that sounds magic for a week! (hmm, maybe if I had to record some song and wanted this sound to death). That's why I stayed away from EI valves.

Any of those valves sound good. What I wanted to say is that, from a construction point, the Amp builder will prefere reliablility and then money, as soon as the valve has an acceptable sound for their design.

If you didn't try the Gold Lion and Mullard, you don't know how reliable are or if it's there some noticiable improvement. You didn't explore their "aural qualities" and, I can understand it. For you, Sovtek and JJ's are giving you enough for a budget, are working fine in every amp and deliver tone. That's exactly what I'd do in your case. Don't get my wrong. I'm not agaist this, maybe it's just a language's barrier.

My position is quite different. I haven't to order a batch of those valves and, I haven't to satisfy a bunch of customers, where standarization can help a lot. I need to satisfy a single customer (myself) and just order a pair of each to see if I like them or not in each amp.
If after testing all them, I realize that I like more an expensiver valve, I will be worried, since it means that I need to save more cash for a new pair to be fully satisfied or, go for a cheaper one that also works fine and to know what I am loosing in tone for the benefite of my wallet; Then, I will take into account that valve only in the case of song recordings or special situations.
If I'd prefere the cheapest of all them instead, I will be the happier man on the Earth, believe me.

Will expensiver valves worth the extra money?. Probably not. Usually, changes in pre-amp tubes, specially V1 are more dramatic than changes in power amps. And gap between current prodution valves is everytime smaller.
But, I want to check the most representative ones, just to satisfy my curiosity.

martinw

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2010, 02:03:10 PM »
If you didn't try the Gold Lion and Mullard, you don't know how reliable are or if it's there some noticiable improvement. You didn't explore their "aural qualities" and, I can understand it. For you, Sovtek and JJ's are giving you enough for a budget, are working fine in every amp and deliver tone. That's exactly what I'd do in your case. Don't get my wrong. I'm not agaist this, maybe it's just a language's barrier.

Certainly some kind of barrier.  :)
You're assuming I haven't tried those other valves?

What I'm trying to get across, is that you're assuming I agree with you that JJ's (or Sovteks, and BTW it was JPF who professed to use these brands, but I agree with him and would be quite happy to use either) are in some way lesser in tone.
This is just your opinion and I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU! It could happen you know!  :lol:
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hermetico

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2010, 02:26:22 PM »
Certainly some kind of barrier.  :)
You're assuming I haven't tried those other valves?
Lol, it was jpfamps who didn't try those. Sorry. :?

Quote
What I'm trying to get across, is that you're assuming I agree with you that JJ's (or Sovteks, and BTW it was JPF who professed to use these brands, but I agree with him and would be quite happy to use either) are in some way lesser in tone.
This is just your opinion and I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU! It could happen you know!  :lol:
Sorry, I am not assuming this in your case, since you tested all them. Even, neither in the case of JPF. If someone is satisfied at one point, why go further?
I am neither saying that ones are better than others.
I will choose the one the better works for me, agreeing or disagreeing with you both but, for sure, all your feedback is helpful.

It seems that you usually don't use those tubes, what are your prefered ones, please?.


Kluson56

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2010, 02:33:11 PM »
Hi guy's, I'm new to this forum and noticed the thread asking which EL84 to recommend. After reading through some great discussions I was still not sure which way to go.
My problem is, I have a Blues Junior, which after one year of very moderate use has blown one of the Groove Tube EL84's. It looks like it's over heated and after reading other forums it appears the reason may be down to the Bias and the fact the BJ run's a bit hot and therefore the picture below is the result.

:(

Before this happened I was very happy with the overall tone, my BJ is the Tweed version with the Celestion Vintage 30.
Can anyone recommend a valve which will not change the tone to much but be able to cope with the extra heat being generated.

Elliot

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2010, 04:49:34 PM »
Until I had my BJr modded to 6v6 - I use to get through a pair of EL84s after 1 year - the cure is to drop the overly hot bias, which cooks the EL84s - but even then EL84s don't last that long - 2 years at the best.  Many people talk of the speaker breaking in and more bass coming - this is generally the EL84s going. 

JJs, EH, etc - all much of a muchness in terms of lasting out the term but expect 1 year to be your lot with the hot bias.  If you don't want to change the sound buy a matched quad of Groove Tubes - they are the ones the amp comes with.

Alternatively, get someone the BillM kit or someone like JPF or MJW to put in a bias mod.
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Telerocker

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2010, 12:25:20 AM »
I love EH's EL84's. But I heard they are not reliable as JJ's.
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Elliot

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Re: EL 84 recommendations
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2010, 09:17:00 AM »
Given the macho biasing of almost all modern EL84 amps (the Blues Junior is not the only culprit) no brand of tube is going to last very long!
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