Another forum discussion on BK

[rsterren]

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1058862#post1058862

Got me a bit worryd about the NailBomb being 'Bright'...
I need a darker higher output Pub.
So what options do you guys have?

next week the Burny is ready and i have to make a dissision on the pickups...

[Tim]

Can't seem to follow the link, what was it about?
Check out Steve's clip in the player's room for the Nailbomb, I'll hopefully post up another more rhythm based Nailbomb clip later.
The Nailbomb isn't overly bright, it's meaty as hell especially in a LP.

[rsterren]

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1058862#post1058862

link worked here.. its a compare between Bare Knuckle and WCR Pickups.

Steve's clip sound great! thats wasnt there yesterday when i checked the forum ;-), i'm convinced ;-)

and in a strat, so a LP will give it even more balls!

[Ol]

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1058862#post1058862

link worked here.. its a compare between Bare Knuckle and WCR Pickups.

Unfortunately Les Paul is a member only forum and not everyone is a member.  Could you "summarise" it for us, pretty please  :roll:

[rsterren]

ok here goes:

Has anyone compared Bare Knuckle to WCR Pickups?
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Guys, I am really interested in a set of Darkbursts for my, soon to arrive, 2005 R8 although I have never experienced
Burstbuckers before. As I live in the UK the Bare Knuckle pickups are all the rage, has anyone compared them? For me the
difference in cost is not that much and as you have to buy before hearing with pickups I cannot lose either way. For
reference I like Gary Moore (Blues) Slash and Billy Gibbons and all nice hard rock and roll.

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Talk to Tim Mills himself, he can be reached by phone. As long as you ask for what you actually want, you will not be
disappointed. Guitarists are often quite poor at realising what part a pup plays in a tone as witnessed by the number some
people go through.
A far better pup than Gibson's offerings.

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I had a pair of DB for that Slash tone too. They are great PAF. Bridge has lots of treble and clarity, hollow mids, good
bass. Very punchy and clear. I found them not enough smooth, and lacking mids (bridge) for me. I sold them.

I have BK PUs but for a different tone (more screaming): Nailbomb bridge + Riff Raff. BK has the same qualities : punchy and
clear. NB and Riff Raff has a strong treble content but it was what I was after for this guitar (a full mahogany slim body)

For my PRS I am looking for the kind of tone you want. I talked to Tim @BK and they told me about the Mules Alnico IV that
could do exactly what I want. Others ideas: Rio Grande BBQ+ Texas (or A2P), Voodoo 57's, or WCR ********s. Let me know what
you choose.


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here's my twopenneth.
from the above mentioned pickups makers i have tried:
WCR Filmores and Hercs
BARE KNUCKLE emeralds and mules.

In my opionion bare knuckle don't come close to wcr.
Posts: 57  Re: Has anyone compared Bare Knuckle to WCR Pickups?

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Nickysplendid!

You've finally come out and said it! Cheers.

I was torn between WCR & BKs and went with Darkbursts because of the favourable exchange rate, also I couldn't resist them
due to forum opinion.

Tim Mills charges £90 a pickup, which is too expensive. I can get WCR stuff sent from the US for less than BK can do from
Cornwall!

As far as I can tell, you're the only guy out there to have A/B'd BOTH makers so you're an authority mate..... This months
Guitarist Mag rates BKs very highly, but they don't mention any of the forum faves in the sidebar stuff, just the usual
Dimarzio / Duncan stuff.

Thanks again for putting me out of my mysery

Proby

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I've just spent 40 mins putting together a reply that i've just deleted. it was a bit too contravertial .if i could've mailed
u proby..i would have.

there are a couple of uk pickup makers that have always been "value for money"...they haven't ever really been in the running
as serious quality pickups. Bare Knuckle have been very pricey from day one. Tim has clearly spent a lot on advertising and
getting the right image out there.
U know how it is...when u spend a lot of money on anything u almost think it's good regardless. I think the same rule applies
to cheap stuff too...u buy cheap pups...u think they sound cheap.

what say u proby?
     
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Im looking into BK for a burny les paul thats a bit to bright to my taste now.
Tim adviced the NailBomb, but CED77 remark "NB and Riff Raff has a strong treble content" make me worry again.....
i have duncan distortions in my GibsonLP but the gibson is darker sounding than the burny, so i was looking at darker
sounding PUbs for the burny, any ideas?
       
rsterren

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as u can probably tell...i'd advise against the BKs.

I really like the Gibson 57 plus at the bridge on my les. I prefered the filmores though.

I have wcr Hercs in my V at the mo...i love to get another herc to try in my les.

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Nicky,

I've met Tim a couple of times at shows in the Midlands and he seems a really clever guy that knows a lot about pickups. I
tried some BK's in 2 LP's on his stands on both occasions but could not make a judgement due to confusing models names and
the low volume of the amps.

Jim Wagner's stuff is well known around here, loads of forum members have his kit, he has like 4 models to choose from and by
and large he gets the "thumbs up" , an easy choice.

I'd really like to have tried the BK's properly because I wanted to make a fair judgement. The sad thing is the US guys are
not going to shell out what Tims asking and the UK Mags seem oblivious to the pups favoured around here.

Your earlier posts swung it for me, as you were the only guy out there to have actually had both BKs and WCRs in your
guitars! Thanks bloke....


Proby


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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsterren
Im looking into BK for a burny les paul thats a bit to bright to my taste now.
Tim adviced the NailBomb, but CED77 remark "NB and Riff Raff has a strong treble content" make me worry again.....
i have duncan distortions in my GibsonLP but the gibson is darker sounding than the burny, so i was looking at darker
sounding PUbs for the burny, any ideas?



I had a Duncan Distortion too but in another guitar. It would be hard to say who is the trebliest between NB and DD .... Both
are close in my memories (I still have not the DD to compare). The NB is a bit more powerfull maybe.

I had a pair WCR Darkburst, but they are completly different beast. Less powerfull, lots of treble too, less mids. More
vintage.

If you like DD, maybe a Custom (thicker than DD) could please you?
I did not try a 57 Classic+, but read they are plenty bright. Don't know if it's true....

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I have researched what PAF type pickup I need and have gone with a set of RS Fralins coming is shortly from RS Guitar Parts.

They use alnico IV (4) mags and fall directly between the WCR Crossroads and the Darkbursts. They are a proprietary pickup
built by Lindy Fralin to the exact specs of a set of 1960 PAFS that Roy at RS has. They can be purchased from RS Guitar Parts
directly in black, zebra or with nickel covers.
       

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Still would like to give BK a go, price is not very different from Duncan (i'm in holland)
I Kinda like the image Tim is having, and the personal approache he's using.
I do need a high output pickup but dont wanna go with 'what everyone is using' and a SD custom is in every hot LP these days
i guess.
So if the NailBomb is to bright i will ask hime to make me a pickup thats darker.. lets hope it works out ;-)

[HJM]

Interesting, they look to be doing things very much like BKP and a host of other hand winders - but the website is cr@p....and judging from what's being said on the site teh attention to detail just isn't anywhere near what Tim goes to.


Also a pair of black HBs for $250, plus £20 for four conductor wiring, and some shipping, it'll be $300. So call it £160, then you need to add VAT and duty (assuming you get hit), and bingo, BKP are cheaper....

Just 'cause you don't always get hit at customs, doesn't mean that any given product is cheaper.

Oh and by the way, I don't work for BKP, I just help them out because I think they're the best pickups I've ever come accross, have done since I first met Tim a couple of years ago.

[Tim]

:lol:
I know the guy who's posting-he bought some of our first pickups,played them for over a year and then decided he didn't like them and emailed me complaining about it.I made him another set FOC and sent them out-his response-he loved them....doesn't say much about that does he!
He's come on the stand a couple of times and I get the feeling he just doesn't like someone that's got off his arse and gone and done something rather than just moan on forums.
It is hard to hear at the trade shows but we do our best and we always offer to exchange a pickup if a customer isn't happy-I'm not in it to make money at any cost-I'm in this because I'm a guitar player, same as the rest of you, who wants their guitar to sound it's best.

WCR coils are fine, I've had quite a few in here for rewinds, they're made from pretty standard components, put together very well and very lightly potted-got nothing against them at all.If this guy prefers them then all power to him.
Jim makes his pickups exactly the same way I do-to the best of his ability.

The type of Emerald mentioned was a prototype which we phased out very quickly( the guy in question tried it out before he bought too so he knew what he was buying) and replaced with the Emerald we now sell-the Mules were custom speced hotter than I would normally wind at the his own request, also with Alnico V unlike the usual Alnico IV I would normally use so basically his experience counts for nothing-I know the type of pickup he likes but he's never tried one of ours that is in that ballpark so I can't really fight my corner on this one.


As for expensive-I don't think £90 is a lot here in the UK for a totally handmade pickup. A  SD Antiquity will set you back £120, Fralin, humbucker £110-140, Gibsn 57 Classic £100, Rio Grande £90....so we're not over the top by a long mark.
As for WCR coils being cheaper, they're $250 a set plus import plus carriage-by the time you've got through that lot you'll be close on the £170 a set we charge(yes, our sets are £10 cheaper than buying individual pickups!). Remember the $ is very weak to the £ at the moment so it's not a level playing field.
All BKPs are warrantied for life and come with a complimentary set of strings too(and no, that's not marked into the price, that comes out of my own pocket).
Plus we work in Devon not Cornwall so he should get his facts right too before shooting his mouth off.

I wouldn't worry about the comments re:treble in respect of Nailbomb and Riff Raff-that's way off the mark too. Check the clips in the players room.

As you can see I'm FIERCELY protective about what we do here-I work 14 hours a day, every day making pickups, speaking to customers, trying to keep a handle on what's going on in the forum, replying to over 100 mails a day. I'm not niave enough to think I can please everyone but I'll go head on with anyother pickup on the planet for build quality and tone bar none.

[bucketshred]

I would say something clever here but I can't think of anything.

Although I have to admit, my playing an tone have never been good since I tried the BKP's through Marshalls at last years LGS, those WarPigs were brutal and whatever was in that Charvel was really cool too!

Andy!

[rsterren]

ok guys, thnx for the clearing up bit!

[steve]

Hi, and that clip was recorded using a £250 digital recorder, through a valve amp my strat now sounds more like a Les Paul. Fat!!!!
Steve.

[Tim]

This is a what the guy on the LP forum actually said to me in an email after I replaced the pickups he decided he didn't like(after a year!!):

'The pickups have improved the SG a great deal. I am very pleased with the hotness.
They are also very nicely balanced between the bridge and neck and sound pretty hot. great stuff! '

'yes..a real result.
The biggest difference I noticed was that the new ones have loads of clarity (but don't make the sg sound like i'm using a stanley blade for a plectrum)'

So there you have it from the horses mouth as it were.

When he caught up with me at a trade show after that he continued to say how pleased he was with them and also how much he liked WCR's too which is fair enough in my book.

As for the other guy finding the names I call my pickups confusing..........Warpig, hmmmm now I wonder what that's all about

 :twisted:

OK I like to indulge myself in the names but why not and I personally think it's an easy way of getting a ballpark idea of the tone they'll produce as well as being a bit of fun.
 :D

[Jag Panzer]

I disagree with the comment in that forum that players in the U.S. won't pay the money for BK.

The dollar is weak now, so going to local Guitar Center and buying a Duncan or DiMarzio is going to be less money.  And there are many players that will go this route.

But to anyone serious about thier tone, the price of a BK pickup is miniscule compared to other equipment.  My amp head alone was $3,200.  And I didn't mind paying that.  I want the best tone for myself.

The Miracle Man took my tone to the next level, just as my amp purchase did.  When I look at what BK did for my sound and what I spent, it's a great bargain!

Mark

[TwilightOdyssey]

The Miracle Man took my tone to the next level, just as my amp purchase did.  When I look at what BK did for my sound and what I spent, it's a great bargain!

Amen!
What head, Mark? I saw the Engl logo on the new album ...

[jt]

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1058862#post1058862

Got me a bit worryd about the NailBomb being 'Bright'...
I need a darker higher output Pub.
So what options do you guys have?

next week the Burny is ready and i have to make a dissision on the pickups...

8) Tim i read your coments with great interest life throws up these situations you no & i no theres allways someone who thinks its hip to go against the grain. Your defence is simple just look on Harmony Central are we the users of your P/U`s all wrong ? highly unlikely and lets be fair here if your confused by more than 4 P/U names you can`t be to bright to start with can you !!!  To slat you for advertising your company in guitar mags and then complaining that the ads look good what your supposed to spend ex amount of thousands of pounds on a shite looking ad !!! i would never have checked out your web site if it wasn`t for your profesional looking ads and the name [Stormy Monday] which suggested tone more so than gain which was exactly what i was looking for. As for value for money Duncan antiquetes are £120. each your right your product is hand made and better and cheaper than the big players. if the idiots that think its cool to put you and your excellent product down without listening to the players  page & downloading the sounds then they can`t be to bright can they !!!

[balde]

You won“t imagine how expensive is for me, i live in Argentina!!!!
BUT, If tone is what you want then there“s nothing close. There“s no price for tone people should understand that. Then nobody would waste their money on lousy products like DIMARZIO, SEYMOUR DUNCAN and so on. I prefer spending my money on someone who cares for what i need, who stands himself behind his products. Man! when i play a chord my jaw just drops!!!!!