Author Topic: Another forum discussion on BK (Read 28202 times)

balde · « **Reply #15 on:** April 30, 2005, 02:43:36 AM »

Tim, you shouldn´t even worry about some people talking bullshitee in forums. To me, a lot of people don´t even know what they are saying and since it´s free, and nobody sees their faces, they just like to rat on everybody. To bad for them, i prefer using that time to play guitar while i work on my tone. Man, tone is 90% hands and heart 10% gear.
Thanks for that 10% Tim!!!!
Cheers!
Santiago

Tim · « **Reply #16 on:** April 30, 2005, 07:48:09 AM »

Amen to that Santiago!

jt · « **Reply #17 on:** April 30, 2005, 12:59:56 PM »

Quote from: balde

You won´t imagine how expensive is for me, i live in Argentina!!!!
BUT, If tone is what you want then there´s nothing close. There´s no price for tone people should understand that. Then nobody would waste their money on lousy products like DIMARZIO, SEYMOUR DUNCAN and so on. I prefer spending my money on someone who cares for what i need, who stands himself behind his products. Man! when i play a chord my jaw just drops!!!!!

8) Amen brother Balde !!

Andy · « **Reply #18 on:** April 30, 2005, 04:45:02 PM »

im not gonna come n start slating people for their opinions. everyone has the right to be wrong now and then, just try not to abuse it.

i'v just gotten off the phone with tim, after endless emails and long chats, he's still more than willing to help, thats rare to find!

bk's gave me the sound i heard in my head, and when my needs changed slightly tim's still there providing the right answers! cos he's cool!

bareknuckle made me a man!
8)

keep it up!!!!

p.s. a big hi to everyone on the board!

Niall · « **Reply #19 on:** April 30, 2005, 05:10:22 PM »

I'm a member of the LPF, but don't think I've made a single post there. There are LOADS of experienced and knowledgable bods over there, some great learning to be done. It's far from all good though.... forums are a great place to read and learn stuff, especially both sides of the coin and all opinions, but there will always be one or two who post for the sake of it, with no real experience or knowledge of what they're on about. I find this to be true of all forums I frequent.

Why did I go BKP? Well, at first I thought it was hype.... I spent an afternoon with a guy in a guitar store who was telling me about this Tim guy who made pickups, and he gave me an article to read. One of the first sentences I picked up on was along the lines of the pickups being the brains of the guitar, the woods were not a massive factor, more of something to hold the pickups. I have to admit to taking umbrage to this, how could my fancy topped PRS not sound better for the fancy wood, eh?? :lol: But I dropped Tim a mail and it was clear he knew a thing or two, something I've never professed to do personally (I play to an ok standard, that's as far as I go generally). A little while later I asked Tim to make some replacements for the pickups in my PRS Santana 3 and that was that, hooked. I got all the interaction and customer service all you guys know about, and Tim was very specific in asking what I wanted. Did he deliver?? Hell yeah. And so when it came time for me requiring 3 P90s for a guitar?? BK again. I would have absolute FAITH in a guitar simply built well enough not to fall apart and hold it's tuning, with a pair of BKs in. I still wouldn't go so far as to say the construction and materials of a guitar add nothing to the tone, but MAN pickups can make a guitar a completely different animal.

My point? I'll have to admit to having been something of a guitar 'tw@t' until the last 3 or so years. My answer to finding and improving tone had more often than not been to buy a more expensive, exclusive guitar. Then the Santana 3 turned all that on it's head. A pickup wound to how I want it to sound, replaced and/or re-built if it's not quite how I like it?? A £2k+ guitar brought to life by a £90 pickup?? I honestly don't see how can anyone could feasibly argue with that being a bargain. BKs have changed my approach to what a guitar is and how to find and make tone. All for less than a decent pedal. Also not to be underestimated is what I learnt from Tim when my first pair of BKs were being made..... true, I have forgotten nearly all of it but I don't care, I'm not technical and don't really want/need to be so long as there are such people in the world who can be relied upon.

Right, I'm off to wipe the brown from my nose and beat the cr@p out of some guitars for a while.

Cheers all, saturday rant over.

N.

Tim · « **Reply #20 on:** April 30, 2005, 05:59:37 PM »

The point I was trying to make about wood vs pickups was basically that without a pickup an electric guitar won't work :shock: -yeah really :lol: so all the constant talk about this and that type timber has to be balanced with the other factors that contribute to tone.
The single most important factor in tone is the player-then a split of wood/construction and pickups ending in the amplified tone. Everything goes into the pot but the single most important ingredient is the player.

Niall · « **Reply #21 on:** April 30, 2005, 06:42:15 PM »

Hi Tim, yeah I'd kinda agree with that. During a recent discussion on another forum I made this post relating to importance of contributing factors to overall tone:

--------------
1: Amp
2: Pickups
3: Player
4: Construction materials

I absolutely appreciate the 'all in the fingers' side of things, I agree with it.... I also agree that a truly good guitarist will sound like her/herself on whatever rig. However fingers and technique very rarely make equipment sound like other equipment IMO. If anyone would like to pop round and make my daughter's Yamaha guitar and Fender amp sound like my AT into the Bluesbreaker, I'd love to hear from you.

For me I have to have confidence in my amp. Next is the pickups. If they're right then I have everything I need to do my thing.
--------------

I don't think amp *should* be at the top of the list in all honesty.... an ideal for me is an amp which simply 'makes louder' the player and the guitar, with no colouration of the tone (why I like my Yamaha and some older Marshalls). That's kinda a rare thing these days though, amps tend to more frequently be chosen based on their tone-shaping so I put 'em on top. Pickups is number 2 purely based on some extremely naff ones I've played, if they're THAT bad then you're kinda sunk from square one. If all's well in amp and pickup land though, then one is set to go!!! I do see construction technique and material as nice and important ways to shape tone, but to me that's kinda extreme and much easier to do in the pickups. Still fun choosing woods and what not, mind. :)

I'd also put cables and plectrums in there too, but the above would be my personal top 4.

N.

ps Oops, sorry for derailing the thread...normal service will now resume (i.e. I'll shut the hell up). Go BK!

FELINEGUITARS · « **Reply #22 on:** April 30, 2005, 07:08:34 PM »

EVERYTHING COUNTS TOWARDS THE FINAL PICTURE.

The player is ultimately the most important but don't overlook the vital part of both the timbers AND the pickups.
I'm really lucky in my job where this is concerned.
I deal with loads of guitars, loads of pickups and the only cinstant in the equation is me. Now some guitars float my boat more than others , and inspire me to play in a certain way or just more.

We have had a busy week changing pickups to BKPs in our own guitars which are about as good as they come (try one and see) and my goodness do the pickups make a difference!
Guitars that I liked loads - I now love with the BKPs.
And that can be a problem as I won't want to sell them and that is what my business is all about.

We have made these fab guitars loaded with great pickups just sing through a 12W Marshall practise amp - cheap tranny job, and couldn't wait to try them through a big valve amp (we weren't disappointed!!)

But every part of the signal chain is important - so don't go cheaping out on cables and the like. it is very much like Hi-Fi to a degree where your sound is only as good as your weakest link.

But timbers, hardware and pickups are all important.
Different timbers colour the sound and my pickup choices vary depending on this.
I have often swapped out pickups and ended up using something very different to what I thought i would because I'm using a different timber to where I had based my previous experiences.
So experimentation is the key ...if you can afford that luxuary.[/i]

Tim · « **Reply #23 on:** April 30, 2005, 07:38:43 PM »

I was talking with a friend today saying that tone was probably 33% wood, 33% pickups and 33% player-he pointed out that to an audience it was more like 90% players and 10% equipment.
A great player will have the same tone through whatever they play coloured by whatever they're using-it'll be in the way they phrase, just like speaking really.

Anyway the point I was originally trying to make is that it's the sum of the whole-some people get too carried away pinning it all on one facet like wood or pickups.For example you can put a 3K PRS or Gibbo up against my little test axe which is a shoe box size piece of wood with a neck screwed onto it-put the same pickup into both and plug into the same amp and I'll be damned if it doesn't give the expensively timbered guitar a run for it's money.Looks horrible mind but when you close your eyes the tone is there.

For me getting the feel of a guitar correct is as important as the timber-if it feels wrong you won't pick it up in the first place,. Once thats right everything else combines together to shape the tone-construcution, timber,hardware, pickups, strings, cable, amp and most importantly the person playing it!

lulusg · « **Reply #24 on:** May 01, 2005, 12:16:47 PM »

:) Balde...Vos tenés razón Che....

FELINEGUITARS · « **Reply #25 on:** May 01, 2005, 01:18:19 PM »

Tim made a good point.

To someone listening - the player is 90% of the equation

To the player - the gear is much more important part of the equation.

The player is always trying to achieve a sound that exists only in his/her head and will change their playing style to accomodate that tone with whatever they are playing through - however if the gear gets them closer to that tone without them having to physically compensate- it can "open up their playing style " and inspire them differently

balde · « **Reply #26 on:** May 02, 2005, 12:55:35 AM »

que flash!!!!!!!!! de donde sos lulu?
Sorry folks, think i met some that speaks spanish!!!
:D

balde · « **Reply #27 on:** May 02, 2005, 03:59:50 AM »

Tim has a point here. I´ve seen it so many times, people playing with their rigs or with ss amps and a cheap guitar, and sounding just like themselves. I mean, does a korean strat sound the same as a 64 strat? Of course not. Does a Marshall valvestate sound as a Vintage Marshall Plexi? Hell no!!! But there´s something that goes far beyond that and it´s the way you pulse the strings. And not only that, there are so many other things involved, such as passion, feeling and so on.
If gear defined a good tone, then everybody would sound the same and whoever has the money to buy good gear will instantly have good tone right? We all know it doesn´t work that way. To me, the search of gear is more related to which tool can help, me myself achieve the tone i am looking for, than for the tone that specific thing provides. Not only that, i believe that such thing doesn´t exist. Of course a marshall is a marshall and a fender is a fender etc. But grab a guitar and an amp, put 10 people playing through the exact same rig, same settings, and there we´ll get 10 different tones.
I guess the search for tone is an exact analogy to life itself, there isn´t any correct way but the one we find best for ourselves. The concept of good tone is so controversial, that there would never be something that could even stand for that definition.
I got to a point where i am happy with the tools i have(of course i wouldn´t say that´s definite!) but feel that there´s too much work to be done, and that´s my friends, KEEP ON PLAYING THE GUITAR. That´s were true tone stands out, by working hard making music. After all, music is pure expression and that has nothing to do with the fact of which gear we use right?
Cheers to everybody!!!!
I LOVE THIS FORUM :D

jt · « **Reply #28 on:** May 02, 2005, 04:37:32 AM »

Quote from: balde

Tim has a point here. I´ve seen it so many times, people playing with their rigs or with ss amps and a cheap guitar, and sounding just like themselves. I mean, does a korean strat sound the same as a 64 strat? Of course not. Does a Marshall valvestate sound as a Vintage Marshall Plexi? Hell no!!! But there´s something that goes far beyond that and it´s the way you pulse the strings. And not only that, there are so many other things involved, such as passion, feeling and so on.
If gear defined a good tone, then everybody would sound the same and whoever has the money to buy good gear will instantly have good tone right? We all know it doesn´t work that way. To me, the search of gear is more related to which tool can help, me myself achieve the tone i am looking for, than for the tone that specific thing provides. Not only that, i believe that such thing doesn´t exist. Of course a marshall is a marshall and a fender is a fender etc. But grab a guitar and an amp, put 10 people playing through the exact same rig, same settings, and there we´ll get 10 different tones.
I guess the search for tone is an exact analogy to life itself, there isn´t any correct way but the one we find best for ourselves. The concept of good tone is so controversial, that there would never be something that could even stand for that definition.
I got to a point where i am happy with the tools i have(of course i wouldn´t say that´s definite!) but feel that there´s too much work to be done, and that´s my friends, KEEP ON PLAYING THE GUITAR. That´s were true tone stands out, by working hard making music. After all, music is pure expression and that has nothing to do with the fact of which gear we use right?
Cheers to everybody!!!!
I LOVE THIS FORUM :D

:guitar4: One of the big reasons why players playing through the same gear sound so different is there ears !! :P we all hear things differently and we make in some cases minor changes to how we play or sound notes in order to compensate or accent a note or chords. this can give a complety different expretion to a phrase or passage. we adjust the settings on our amps and pedals to help us do this it`s what helps make us as players unique it`s also the biggest reason why guitars wil never die as an instrument. 8)
the point i tried [badly] to make to Tim earlier in this discussion was that its a sure sign of success that your recieving complaints no matter how unjustified you may feel they are; we are all hear because we have problems with other P/U manufacters !! but you would have to say that Di*****o or D*****Ns are successfull companys yet how many of us complain about them!!?? :o So don`t take it personally the reviews on Harmony Central are testiment to how good your P/U`s are Tim and word of mouth is also helping to spread the good news :shock:

HTH AMPS · « **Reply #29 on:** May 03, 2005, 01:24:47 AM »

I had some of the Timbuckers that are very popular on the LPF and they are indeed very nice PAF repros, the best I've tried in fact (also had Seth Lover, Antiquity, 57 Classic, Virtual PAF, '59, T-Tops). I sold them recently though as I'm playing stuff which is alot heavier and I need a pickup to translate that style.

I've also tried the WCR Fillmores - don't know if I had a dodgy set but both pickups were thin and weedy (on par with those cr@p humbuckers that Gibson were loading in their LPs during the late 80s/early 90s).

As for hotter pickups, the DiMarzio AirZone is a really under-rated pickup - huge bass response that's great with alot of gain.

With the current £-$ exchange rate, its unfair to compare prices - you have to price to your domestic market.

:twisted: