Tone of the double locking tremolo systems (mainly thinking about a Floyd Rose)

[Zaned]

Hi,

I've never owned a guitar with a double locking trem system, although I do have a sort of a GAS for one :) This topic is not so much about getting me to buy or NOT buy one, I'm just curious on the tonal properties that they have. I've tried a few, but now enough to make a judgement. The trem-equipped guitars I've owned or own, range from a fender vintage style tremolo to fender two-point, to L.R. Baggs (or whatever it was on the Variax 700) to a Hipshot trem. The Hipshot is very very good; it sounds great and holds the tuning very well.

Now to the actual questions:

1. If you have tried similar(ish) guitars, other with a non-locking (for example, fender vintage style) trem or a fixed bridge, and other with a Floyd, what are the tonal effects of the Floyd?

2. This is an interesting one. I once read an Yngwie interview, and he stated that the locking nut kills the resonance on the headstock (which he deemed very important).  I believe this would be pretty easily tested with the locking nut unlocked :) Experiences?

3. The actual metal on the nut. Are there any nuts for a floyd that have a non-metallic contact surface with the string? Or would it just crack on the tightening process?
I've seen some floyd-equipped guitars without locking nuts, but if I go with the floyd, I'll probably go all the way.

-Zaned

[phlip]

I had many Floyd Equipped guitars in the 80's and for the style of Music I was playing I really didn't notice any issues until I switched to a Les Paul in 1989 the power and sustain seemed to leap out of the Guitar.
I didn't play a Whammy equipped guitar again until earlier this year when i started having Major Whammy GAS.

Of all the guitars I played the most solid and toneful were the ones equipped with the Ibanez ZR Trems, second were the Non locking SynchroniZR type and 3rd were Floyd Equipped guitars of any brand, The difference was subtle but the ZR equipped S770 I ended up buying sustains almost as well as My Les Paul which is amazing considering how thin it is. The 80's man in me really wanted a Charvel but it just didn't sound or play as well as the Ibanez.

As a trem is hardly flattens at all when doing unison string bends which to me is way more important than it's inability to flutter when you flick the end of the arm.

[asianaxeman]

I love floyds and recommend them highly. Gibson made some fatal mistakes releasing some 'metal' versions of an explorer and others with kahler tremolos but no locking nut- you will never stay in tune.

I think the Ibanez trems on the K7 and RG guitar I have (both locking) are very good too.

The best non-locking trem I've experienced is PRS- on a standard 24. Check em out, sustains like a LP...beautifully made.

I agree about what yngwie said- almost certainly kills some sustain compared to a fixed tone pros bridge. But it's minor. Easier to bend strings with a floyd system because the mobile bridge helps accomodate the bends. Check out this guys videos, he does a really good low down on floyds and kahlers..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy1eiMZ5nUk

[Antag]

Biggest tonal different I've found with Floyds has been between the Schaller Floyd & the OFR (which is also made by Schaller apparently).  The Schaller labelled one seems a bit smoother & does "something" to the mids which makes them really pronounced (sorry, can't describe it any better than that :lol:).

Another factor is the colour of the Floyd - yes, really.  The black ones definitely sound different to the gold or chrome ones, I guess because the string is effectively sitting on a layer of paint as opposed to metal plating.  The gold & chrome ones allegedly sound different though I've never A/B'd them in the same guitar...

Also, I don't think it's true to suggest that Floyd equipped guitars sustain less than non-Floyd guitars (OK, I know that's not strictly what you said, but that's how some people will read it).  IMHO the woods used & 101 other things in the guitars construction can increase or reduce sustain to a much greater extent than the locking nut.

My Feline superstrat with chrome OFR sounds HUGE & sustains just as well as, perhaps even more than, any of my 3 LPs...

[Zaned]

Yeah, there are differences between the floyd manufacturers too. Some (for example John Suhr) seem to prefer Gotoh, for example.
The PRS trem is excellent, yes. The Hipshot trem is actually very much like it, the difference is that the Hipshot is two-point. Completely different from a fender two-point though. My friend owns a pre-factory PRS (an alder bodied 24-fret bolt-on model) and the trem is really good :)

Interesting point on the paint, Antag! Makes me wonder whether I should scr@pe the black paint from the saddles on the Hipshot  8) My strat with the vintage style bridge has only rust on the saddles, no paint.

Phlip, I know the unison bend thing issue..downsides of a floating trem, and require attention to keep in tune. Van Halen has his trems set for down-only movement and I guess this is one of the reasons. Changes the tone too, when the trem rests agains the body.

Will check the video, axeman!

One more thing Yngwie said: he prefers the larger headstock, as it brings more wood to the headstock. Better tone, he says..

-Zaned

[dave_mc]

in my limited experience, there's a "softness" to the attack/tone with floyds, they're a bit warmer than vintage strat-style bridges (which have a bit more sparkle), and hardtails sound a bit more "solid", for want of a better word (that's compared to non-locking trems too).

That might be bs, though, that's just what I'm hearing. :lol:

[Copperhead]

I have found that dive-only Floyds, bridge resting on the body and the block, have no disadvantage tone-wise to the same guitar with a fixed bridge and conventional nut. Overall tendency is that fixed bridge conventional nut guitars will have slightly more dark toned examples in a group, and the Floyded ones will have slightly more bright toned examples in a group, but generally the tonal differences are so slight as to be undiscernible on a case by case basis.

[Zaned]

I had actually watched that video, axeman. I'm leaning towards the Floyd more than the Kahler, for some reason :)

Thanks for the comments, Dave and Copperhead. I actually have a pretty good knowledge on the floyd, having read about user's problems with it, on many forums. Most of the time they just don't know how to set up one correctly, or have ruined the knife edges :) I have experimented with the vintage style bridge, making it floating and changing it to dive-only. It changes the attack indeed. Neither is better or worse.

-Zaned

[tekbow]

You know, as far as Kahler vs floyd goes, i was having exactly the same dilema for a possible future guitar. I've had a lot of floyd guitars over the years and wanted to give the kahler a go. the video's you watched (the whole series of 3) were what swung it for floyds, as those tuning stability problems after bending just weren't acceptable to me..

also ever since my first peavey wolfgang, i've always set floyds against the body, really is the best of both worlds

[Ribboz]

There is also a certain "air" to the tone that a Floyd adds (or trem bridge in general) That I could never give up.

Also a pro setup floyd can stay in tune for a month EASY. Even with daily playing, one of my guitars has stayed in tune for 3 MONTHS! (note I also keep them in a stable temp environment) 

[Zaned]

Yeah, a trem bridge can sound brighter, especially compared to a lightweight fixed bridge. In down-only setup too.

With the Hipshot trem (which I use more than the vintage trem), I prefer to keep it floating..it's not because of the flutters, I rarely use them. But I do like the bar vibrato  :)

-Zaned