Strat tone myth or legend? - No 1 - backplate (trem cavity)

[AndyR]

I've been fiddling with strats for a few days and ended up trying two things that I thought would not make a difference that I could hear... but... :lol:

First one - very cheap and reversible mod.

I have a CIJ that has been struggling for a certain "je ne sais quois". A "clarity", shall we say.

I recently read somewhere that removing the plastic backplate can make a big difference to a strat's tone.

What bullsh1t, I thought  :?

The website said that "all strats sound different accoustically with the backplate on/off; with some strats this seems to have no effect on the amplified tone, with others it has a huge effect..."


Ha! Ha! I thought... but the guy posting it sounded equally disbelieving. He also didn't tell us what the difference was, just that it was different, you might like, you might not... so I thought I'd "dick about" a bit.

Now, I have three strats I can compare (2 Roadworns, one 50s, one 60s, and this CIJ 62). Personally, I'm buggered whether I can tell a difference accoustically with the plate on/off on any one of them.

Amplified, I can't hear any difference on the Roadworns.

BUT... on the CIJ, amplified, it's like a blanket has been removed. I could barely believe it. I did it about two weeks ago. I've had the plate on, off, on... stuck on with masking tape for quick on/off. I thought it was just wishful thinking at first... But even the missus can hear it - she was primed that there might be a difference (otherwise why was I sitting her there? :lol:), but not what it was.

At first she said "what am I listening for?". I said there might be a difference, I certainly think I can feel a difference as I play it, but I'm not sure there actually is one... She then asked "what sort of difference?" to which I said "I can't tell you, I want to know whether you can hear anything yourself, anything..." And her immediate response was "well, it sounds tinny-er with it off, I prefer it on"

Apart from the fact that she seems to like the mellower sound and I'm looking for more bite that I can control with the tone control - it seems we agree on the effect it has...

So, anyone who's not heard of this before - try it. It might not do anything at all, or it might... and, if it does, you might or might not like the effect. And it is only six screws to fiddle with...

Does anyone have any idea why it might have this effect? I've checked whether the springs might be touching the plate - nope. Obviously, with it off, in normal playing position, the springs are "damped" by my clothes - but holding the guitar away from my body seems to have no effect... I'm kinda stumped.

Of course, it's not win-win. It seems to have "fixed" my slight issue with my CIJ... but unfortunately I have an irrational dislike of leaving the backplate off! :lol:

[Philly Q]

I suppose a screwed-on plastic plate with no resonant qualities may be damping the body's resonance to some degree (the scratchplate must be doing the same thing, which I have often wondered about).

I'm surprised it's that noticeable though.

Eric Johnson doesn't use a backplate, and we know what a micro-analyser of tone he is.

[AndyR]

I'm surprised it's that noticeable though.

+1 or 2

I was really surprised - I only did it in the spirit of "what the heck? I'm bored..." :lol:

[dave_mc]

my tokai strat came without a backplate :lol:

[Ratrod]

And what if you swap the plastic cover for an aluminium one?

[Philly Q]

And what if you swap the plastic cover for an aluminium one?

And, again, the scratchplate - I've always wondered if the gold anodised plates might possibly add a bit of zing.

[gwEm]

the backplate is the first thing that comes off when i get a trem equipped guitar - not because of tone, but it makes tweaking easier. interesting myth!

[gordiji]

I don't find it hard to accept physical changes to your guitar result in different tonality, even if very subtle, but if
more zing is required, eq adjustment on your amp/guitar surely will be much more effective, unless your at the
limit already.More than that, regular changing of strings makes a big difference .(i don't know why i'm writing this as
you clearly understand your guitars far better than i)

[CaptainDesslock]

this just strikes me as another old wives tales  :P

[shobet]

Just because he's got a picture of Geoffrey Boycott as his avatar doesn't mean he's on old woman. It would need to be a picture of Les Dawson to indicate that.

You whippersnappers don't know $%&# all!

[tomjackson]

When you take the backplate off you can hear the trem springs vibrate which adds a kind of reverb which gives the impression of sustain. 

And you are instantly cooler 8)

[AndyR]

:lol:

Yeah, I thought this one was an "old wives tale" myself - but one of my guitars seems to have listened to it. I'd love to know why. My gut feeling is that Philly and Ratrod might be heading along the right lines, the lump of plastic is restricting the body's resonance in some way. But this seems mighty bizarre when you think about it. And also, bear in mind that the backplate has it's effect on this guitar even when it's only held on with artist's masking tape - not screwed onto the body.

Another one I've always suspected as an old wives tale: floating the trem or screwing it down with 5 springs. I'm afraid I still think it's an old wives tale, I've been experimenting with all 3 strats over this, and I still don't think I can hear a difference :lol:. I am actually wondering whether the two might be connected - ie, on this guitar, if I dump the trem flat, even with the backplate off, I might lose this extra clarity. (The trem is set so well at the moment though, I'm not going to fiddle with it right now)

gordiji, I've been fighting with the tone controls on modellors and amps ever since I can remember :D. Admittedly I'm not doing it at gig volume any more - I seem to remember that this does make a huge difference. In fact, I'd even go as far to say that I wouldn't expect the "problem" I've been experiencing with this strat to be an issue if I could turn the bugger up to pub-gig volume.

With modellors, it's slightly different - especially in headphones - the things are supposedly modelling gig volumes. What I've found with this guitar is that I couldn't get the guitar to cut through a mix like the other strats do. If I fiddle with the "amp" controls, you get a different sound altogether - might as well use one of the other guitars, then I can have the sound I wanted, and it cuts. Same applies to hitting the EQ after the modelling.

I've not tried any recording since, but taking the backplate off seems to have freed up this guitar's top end without damaging it's nice rounded bottom end.

Wouldn't it be funny if it's only the current set of strings it does it to? :lol:  :?

[tomjackson]

The trem one makes the biggest difference IMO

I have to have my trem clamped down...

[Philly Q]

Another one I've always suspected as an old wives tale: floating the trem or screwing it down with 5 springs. I'm afraid I still think it's an old wives tale, I've been experimenting with all 3 strats over this, and I still don't think I can hear a difference :lol:.

Try pulling up on the bar with a note ringing - I think there's a definite increase in sustain.

You could argue it's due to the slight increase in string tension as you're pulling up, but IMO the change in tone really "kicks in" at the point when the bridge goes from floating to sitting flat on the body.

(But ignore me, I prefer hardtails anyway!  )

[AndyR]

Another one I've always suspected as an old wives tale: floating the trem or screwing it down with 5 springs. I'm afraid I still think it's an old wives tale, I've been experimenting with all 3 strats over this, and I still don't think I can hear a difference :lol:.

Try pulling up on the bar with a note ringing - I think there's a definite increase in sustain.

You could argue it's due to the slight increase in string tension as you're pulling up, but IMO the change in tone really "kicks in" at the point when the bridge goes from floating to sitting flat on the body.

(But ignore me, I prefer hardtails anyway!  )

Now that is really interesting, assuming I'm understanding you right. You're saying as you pull up on the bar, and the plate goes flat on the body, you get a change in tone...?

Umm... I was getting that on one guitar the other week, mainly on the top E.

I regard this effect as an absolute no-no, a set-up defect, and to be discouraged if at all possible! :lol: In the past, I've even stopped using a trem because of it.

I get rid of this by careful adjusting of the 1st and 6th screws holding the plate onto the body (assuming screws 2-5 are already lifted slightly, with the heads about 0.5 - 1 mm above the plate).

On this guitar, what was causing this effect was the 1st screw being "too tight". I figured it out by noticing that the bridge plate wouldn't go "absolutely flat" on the treble side, and reasoned that the screw was in just a spot too tight. So I yanked the bar up and loosened the screw until the plate would go flat - the change in tone/volume problem disappears when you do this (or does for me anyway!).

You don't want to loosen the 1st and 6th too much though, because then the thing seems to move about and not get back to concert pitch consistently. But if you get it just right, you don't get that sudden boost in sustain/volume when you pull the bar up as far as it will go...

If I hadn't managed to get rid of the effect, I'd have flattened the bridge and stuck all five springs in :lol: