My love-hate relationship with my powerball - new amp stuff, maybe

[MDV]

So, GAS is looming, for amps.

Just been mucking about with my PB. I put in Tung sol 12AX7s x 3 with the one JAN philips 5751 in the PI and its MUCH better - smoother, thicker, tighter, growlier. With my EQs (yes, 2) in the loop its actually pretty close to what I want now, but...

Its still a bit sterile and glassy in its response and still just a little too fizzy and lacks mid bark in the voicing. Not mids in magnitude, but in the character of them. Not boxy, not honky, just lacking that chewey, woody bark.

I have some JJs for the power section but being a lazy git I havent got round to trying them yet. I dont expect miracles anyway, but maybe I should, because maybe this thread could become a waste of time.

Anyway, things I really like about it - its ultra-tight, it has a somewhat bizarre but outstanding controlled hyper-aggression, its low end goes deep and stays tight, and theres more of it on tap than even I need. Things I dont like are pretty much already covered. Mainly the sterile glassiness/lack of mid bark (they're related I think).

Now I'm thinking a couple of things -

Another amp, likely single channel, that I can mix with the PB in recordings thats still fairly metal but has a more open voicing. I was thinking about a gh100l, or GH50l, actually: any thoughts on these?

A pre to run into the PBs power section. The obvious choice, as I love a lot of the clips of it and its 'proper' amp is the E570 - the SE pre.

A replacement. Or compliment. Something custom, by the looks of things, which I've spoken about with martin and ian, but am not set on.

Closest 'stock' amps to what I want are, in different ways, the VHT deliverance: great in all regards save its low ends flab and fartiness, and the VH4: theres something too processed and restrained and tame about it I cant quite put my finger on, but it otherwise sounds great.

I got a roadstar 18 recently that I need to test in 4-tracking with the PB (clips will follow...I very much doubt you've heard an MJW do what I'm going to do with it, or would ever want to :lol:), and that certainly has the woody mid range bark the PB lacks, so I have qutie high hopes for layering it up in recording, but it lacks pretty much anything else that I look for in a tone, inc low and high end (I found it really dulled: maybe its my drop-B 13-56 strung guitars, maybe its my cab (ubercab, often called dark, and I can sort of agree, but its not that dark) or the V30/Swamp thang combo in it, I dunno).

To be fair I didnt expect it to: I know its not a metal amp, but with an OD infront of it and the same two EQs in the loop but with one of them with the gain dimed and treble bands  and with my highest output pickups (c-bomb) it was just about nearly in the right sort of territory, but its a really tame voicing for what I go for - I mention it to give an idea to those familiar with that sound, or sort of sound, what I mean by 'woody midrange bark'. The roadstars got loads. The powerball has everything else but not much of that. I want it from one amp. Help!

I know, tl:dr.

[Lew]

Sounds like Deliverance would be perfect. I had one for a cpl months and it was blistering. Open, articulate, organic, huge dynamics and not as stiff and had more saturation than a Pitbull.

[MDV]

I tried a deliverence and metioned it as a close-but-no because its low end was a bit farty/shallow for me.

I do love everything else about that amp, though. Especially its responsiveness and its top end - now, I'm a metal rhythm guitarist who 'also can' play lead, but its far from my first love. I plug in and I start riffing, and more or less dont stop. But with the deliverence I couldnt stop playing bluesy-metal leads with big bends and vibrato. It had a lush response, really dynamic and rich and full and sweet and...stuff. If I were to have an amp that was just to record leads on I wouldnt hesitate for an instant - I'd get a deliverence, it kills the engl in that regard.

But I needs teh br00tal rhythm much more, and the deliverence didnt deliver for me.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

I was sort of hoping a pitbull would be metioned in a constructive sort of a way, and less saturated than the deliverence isnt what I hoped for from it :(

[Denim n Leather]

The only amps I can think of that will match your criteria are both by Komet -- the Constellation and the Concorde.

[Dmoney]

Doesn't sound like you're far off what you want with the PB.
How about a tone stack mod to shift the mids a bit?

I've used a couple of ENGL's from time to time when I went places to play shows and couldn't take my own head.
I never really got on with the ones I used but I'm not sure what they were. I can't remember.
I've read that something about the ENGL preamp circuit in some of their amps gives an almost Solid State quality to the distortion generated. Not a good or bad thing. just different.

Have you played an Uberschall? maybe you could get something like the Uber built but single channel, without the fancy fibre optics.

I'm just throwing ideas out really.

Egnater Armageddon?

[Lew]

I tried a deliverence and metioned it as a close-but-no because its low end was a bit farty/shallow for me.

I do love everything else about that amp, though. Especially its responsiveness and its top end - now, I'm a metal rhythm guitarist who 'also can' play lead, but its far from my first love. I plug in and I start riffing, and more or less dont stop. But with the deliverence I couldnt stop playing bluesy-metal leads with big bends and vibrato. It had a lush response, really dynamic and rich and full and sweet and...stuff. If I were to have an amp that was just to record leads on I wouldnt hesitate for an instant - I'd get a deliverence, it kills the engl in that regard.

But I needs teh br00tal rhythm much more, and the deliverence didnt deliver for me.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

I was sort of hoping a pitbull would be metioned in a constructive sort of a way, and less saturated than the deliverence isnt what I hoped for from it :(

I'm selling a Pitbull but if you like the ENGL I don't see you loving the Pitbull. My experience with ENGL (limited to Fireball and Screamer) is that they are really compressed and saturated.

The Pitbulls do vary alot between models but it doesn't matter if it's the CL/CLX/PB45 or UL they all have a very similar feel. People complain about it being tight, dry and unforgiving etc etc... which are exactly what I love about them.  If you're a confident player it $%&#ing kills. Tons of articulation, definition, openness and most of all they are so damn aggressive. When I first started playing through the Pitbull it sounded like it had no gain, no matter how hard I pushed the gain but it just doesn't have much saturation. It feels like a clean channel on 11 but after some playing most everything else quite frankly just sounds compressed, saturated and bollocks. I'm only selling it because I'm still unemployed after finishing uni :9

I don't much like the Diezels either, waaaay to fat. They sound like they've got a friggin chorus pedal built in - can't imagine that would be a fun amp to track, EQ and mix.

Another thing with the Deliverance to be aware of is that there are two revisions and you might prefer the newer revision and the lack of efx loop can be a royal pain.

[Stevepage]

I had the exact same problem. I owned both a Powerball and a Laney VH100R at the same time. I spent hours comparing them and I vastly prefered the Laney. With a boost in the front of the amp, the Laney could do what the Powerball was trying to do and do what the powerball simply couldn't.

The Powerball was a monster of an amp, but lacked a lot. The mids of the Laney made it sound a lot more 'aggressive' I  suppose because the mids were really hitting you.

I'm using the JVM410H right now because it's a very good mix of the tight modern sound of something like an ENGL and the aggressive mids, warm cleans of something like a Laney.

[Twinfan]

Have you played an Uberschall?

+1

Bogner defines chewy midrange bark

[MDV]

Thanks for the suggestions and experiences chaps

DMoney - I'm really not far off with it. Its close, in that it has the most of what I want and the least of what I dont of what I've tried. It does have some SSyness in its response, not in its distortion I think, its more in the sharpness of its top end (which can be brittle, but hasnt been since I put the tung sols in) and the shear speed of its response, which I like - I couldnt give a toss if its solid statey, maybe 'the' amp for me is a solid state amp, I dunno, I havent tried them all.

Ben, thats a bit bluesy and tame for me mate, I hope they can get heavier and more aggressive than that! But cheers

Lew, I've been listening to a few more VHT clips and I like what I hear - they seem to be really accurate and throaty as a whole (which the deliverence was when I played it, and the dry accuracy and I get on just fine - I need a clear amp, not a forgiving mudball!) and I'll stick some VHT/Fryette stuff on the 'to try' list - esp. the 120W deliverence (in the hope it can take my drop-B palm mutes @ 250bpm silliness better than the 60) and the pitbulls. And the Sig-X sounds at least a little promising from clips: any experience anyone?

Steve, I was thinking overdriving a laney VH/GH - mainly GH, as they're reputedly a bit heavier and more aggressive out of the box, but do you think they lack tightness? I need tightness. Lots of tightness.

I've tried an uberschall - I hated it. I found it to be a muddy, woofy dulled PoS. It was pretty good overdriven with an 808, but I was A-Bing that with the PB on the day I bought the PB and the PB won on its stock sounds for me pretty easily - it doesnt sound much like a PB normally does anymore with the valve changes and the EQs I use, and very much for the better to my ears, so the uber isnt a contender for me.

JVMs an interesting option. Havent really considered marshal since I started hating my old TSL602 - how to they compare? Much improvement? I found the 602, and every other TSL I tried, which was most if not all, turned to mush when you tried to get it past mid-80s hard rock.

[Lew]

or just get an axefx :P

[Twinfan]

Good luck with the hunt.  Sounds like it could be a very long one.....

[Lew]

Lew, I've been listening to a few more VHT clips and I like what I hear - they seem to be really accurate and throaty as a whole (which the deliverence was when I played it, and the dry accuracy and I get on just fine - I need a clear amp, not a forgiving mudball!) and I'll stick some VHT/Fryette stuff on the 'to try' list - esp. the 120W deliverence (in the hope it can take my drop-B palm mutes @ 250bpm silliness better than the 60) and the pitbulls. And the Sig-X sounds at least a little promising from clips: any experience anyone?

Not great recorded quality but these show off the qualities of the Pitbull well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k_nOM5TICY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjEiOu9Bkuk&feature=related

[Denim n Leather]

Ben, thats a bit bluesy and tame for me mate, I hope they can get heavier and more aggressive than that! But cheers

Huh, I thought the potential is there with both of these amps, especially since you said you're wanting to contrast the PB, not replace it ...

[MDV]

I dont like Axe-FX clips I've heard. They sound polystyrene-y. I'm getting not-too-bad at spotting its character in clips and guessing correctly when an axe fx is used because of this. Not always right, of course, but quite often.

It will indeed be a long hunt - its been going for a while already.

True, ben, true. I'll see what else I can find on the komets. Thanks. I kind of thought you would mention splawn, actually - have those days gone now? (And can you get an amp without bible verses in it?? :lol:)

[Denim n Leather]

True, ben, true. I'll see what else I can find on the komets. Thanks. I kind of thought you would mention splawn, actually - have those days gone now? (And can you get an amp without bible verses in it?? :lol:)

The Splawn won't do what you are asking of it, and that would only lead to disappointment.