Need to replace c-bombs....

[Fearhk213]

I just popped some c-bombs in my axe and I’m not sure I’m digging them.  I play metal, but I don’t like brutal 24/7.  I like a tone with some grind, but not so much that it loses clarity when doing big chords with high gain.  I like it tight, focused, & punchy, but not too the point of being sterile.  Only bk pickups I have experience with are the a-pig, c-pig, & c-bomb.  Overall, I’d say I like the organic, growly voicing of the a-pig best, but I wanted something a little tighter & less extreme in the bottom end so I opted for the c-bomb.    

I put them in a Hamer korina vector.  Acoustically this guitar is balanced with a slight lean towards the brighter side.  The attack is more round than sharp, but it still has bite.  It resonates nicely, but isn’t out of control.  Overall one of the most balanced guitars I’ve run across.  

The c-bombs replaced some Duncan 59’s.  I actually really liked the 59 neck, but the bridge was too vintage-voiced for my tastes and it didn’t punch enough either.  I will say this, the tone of the 59 bridge was excellent with the guitar, just not quite modern enough for my tastes.  I swapped the neck only because I figured the c-bomb wouldn’t match in the output department.  

As for the c-bombs, the low end is much fuller and rounder than I expected.  Honestly, it didn’t seem as far off from the pigs as I would have thought.  Anyway, I lowered the bass side of the pickups and that helped some, but still too fat & round.  I expected it to be more aggressive & punchy sounding, but it’s just a bit too full in the lows/low mids.  This may sound weird, but compared to the 59 these are warmer, less aggressive, & more saturated (obviously) and the 59 is more aggressive & biting.  I just think these aren’t the right pickups for this axe.  

What would you all recommend me try?  I want some growl and all the same stuff I mentioned in the first paragraph, but I guess something less fat or with less lowend?  As far as a neck model, maybe something in the '59 ballpark.  I’m kind of stumped at this point….

EDIT:  Forgot to mention I tune to drop C.

[MDV]

If you want more aggression and less low end and low mids then go for a painkiller.

[gepetto33]

I can honestly say I had the exact same problem with the Miracle Man - killer pickup, just had too much lows and sounded a little scooped in my guitar.

I'm sure a bunch of people will jump in and immediately recommend the Cold Sweat, but for the sake of learning and honing in on what your sound is, i would recommend listening to a butt ton of clips of the others you haven't tried - Nailbomb, Cold Sweat, Painkiller.  From what you said, and what i could tell from the clips i heard, the Holy Diver probably isn't what you're looking for. 

What tuning are you playing in?  What type of metal do you play, and how important is it that you have uber-tight low end?

These questions could help answer the type of magnet you'd wanna steer toward, as i found the alnico V's to sound fuller in the "punch" area of midrange, meaning not the low-mids or high-mids, MID-mids if you will, haha.

It's been pretty tough to find good sounding metal clips for the CS, but here's a link to this multi-amp pickup shootout, where he uses a Cold Sweat in a Les Paul Goldtop -

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=965182&content=music

every clip on this page around 2:30, give or take a few seconds.  I know it's not metal riffing, but it will give you an idea of how it sounds on many different amps... maybe another member can forward some more "metal-y" CS clips *ahem MDV....

For Nailbomb metal sounds, do a forum search for threads by a guy named "With Full Distortion", he has some good youtube videos showing off the full, grindy mids of the Nailbomb through a Peavey 5150.  There's also this one that's very well recorded, and shows off some nice detail in the high strings...

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21193.0

[Fearhk213]

I can honestly say I had the exact same problem with the Miracle Man - killer pickup, just had too much lows and sounded a little scooped in my guitar.

I'm sure a bunch of people will jump in and immediately recommend the Cold Sweat, but for the sake of learning and honing in on what your sound is, i would recommend listening to a butt ton of clips of the others you haven't tried - Nailbomb, Cold Sweat, Painkiller.  From what you said, and what i could tell from the clips i heard, the Holy Diver probably isn't what you're looking for. 

What tuning are you playing in?  What type of metal do you play, and how important is it that you have uber-tight low end?

These questions could help answer the type of magnet you'd wanna steer toward, as i found the alnico V's to sound fuller in the "punch" area of midrange, meaning not the low-mids or high-mids, MID-mids if you will, haha.

It's been pretty tough to find good sounding metal clips for the CS, but here's a link to this multi-amp pickup shootout, where he uses a Cold Sweat in a Les Paul Goldtop -

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=965182&content=music

every clip on this page around 2:30, give or take a few seconds.  I know it's not metal riffing, but it will give you an idea of how it sounds on many different amps... maybe another member can forward some more "metal-y" CS clips *ahem MDV....

For Nailbomb metal sounds, do a forum search for threads by a guy named "With Full Distortion", he has some good youtube videos showing off the full, grindy mids of the Nailbomb through a Peavey 5150.  There's also this one that's very well recorded, and shows off some nice detail in the high strings...

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21193.0

I play in drop c. 

As far as what kind of metal I play, I'd say it ranges from Mastodon, Tool, & Opeth on the less extreme thrashy side and Machine Head, Fear Factory, & Death on the thrashy side.  Thing is I'm looking for a tone somewhere between those.  Something raw and organic enough to do the former, but still focused & aggressive enough to handle the latter. 

As far as how tight I need the lows, I'd say fairly tight but I still like them to have some feel & dynamics.   

[MDV]

"metal-y" CS clips *ahem MDV....

Que?

Oh, metal, right. No bother.

Painkiller.

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13664.0

C-Pig

For reference - same guitar, same model on the TL, slightly different settings but not a world apart, really different style (within the bounds of metal): So you can hear something like the difference you can expect from your change. Its as close to a variable-controlled comparison as youre gonna get.

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13249.0

Its almost not worth posting this as its a totally different rig (in that it IS a rig, not a little toy making fake guitar sounds) but theres a C-Bomb left on this in the same guitar again - right is the as-yet-unreleased-and-you-probably-cant-have-one-but-I-wouldnt-recommend-it-anyway-because-its-far-more-aggressive-but-has-more-bass-and-low-mids-than-a-c-bomb 'Aftermath, in a different gutiar.

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19791.0

I dont have any clips of the cold sweat, but EQ-wise it fits the bill, aggression-wise maybe not. Its not un-aggressive, but if you want less bass, more attack and top end AND aggression, the PK should be the first port of call. Unless maybe I said C-Bomb before, I dont know if we spoke, I make so many recommendations, in which case: I get 'em wrong occasionally, sorry.

The holy diver is way, way out. Its going to be MORE low middy and LESS aggressive than the c-bomb.

Maybe rebel yell, too. Nolly threw up a quick c-bomb/RY ab a while back and I was really surprised by how aggressive it was, and its not as bassy. Mayhaps you can find it with a search.

Edit - from your last post, F, mind if I call you F? Cant remember the sequence of vowels you have there, anyway, nothing discourages me from the PK recomendation. I'm more sure of it, in fact.

[Fearhk213]

If you want more aggression and less low end and low mids then go for a painkiller.

I'll definitely look into these.  I had actually written these off cause I'd heard they're voiced most like an 81 and I didn't think that's what this axe would need.  Turns out it may be exactly what it needs  :lol:

[MDV]

If you want more aggression and less low end and low mids then go for a painkiller.

I'll definitely look into these.  I had actually written these off cause I'd heard they're voiced most like an 81 and I didn't think that's what this axe would need.  Turns out it may be exactly what it needs  :lol:

Not so.

Its interesting how the chinese whispers spread.

Its been said here (by me and others) that the MOST similar BK to an 81 is the PK. I stand by that. Its tight as hell and has a strong upper mid emphasis, as the 81 does.

Thats where it ends. 'Most' like doesnt mean 'like'. The PK is far more organic, is very un-compressed for such a hot pickup and correspondingly dynamic, and it derives much of its aggression from its strong mids and dynamic response, rather than from shear gain. Its much more harmonically rich and full sounidng and generally beats the 81 at its own game.

[MDV]

Oh, its not that many vowels, its just Fear - hk -213.

I can remember that. Probably.

[Fearhk213]

Thanks for the input dudes.

Oh, its not that many vowels, its just Fear - hk -213.

I can remember that. Probably.

:lol:  I came up with that name YEARS ago.  It was when I was a huge Fear Factory fan.  The HK part came from my favorite song by them, H-K aka Hunter-Killer.  213 was from...well, Slayer  :lol:

I actually had a couple of people recommend me either the c-bombs or painkillers and honestly based on the guitars acoustic properties on paper the c-bombs "seemed" like the better fit.  I'd never have guessed the low mids would be an issue.  Ah well, you live you learn.  I'll look into the RY, but unless that clip really sways me I think I'll get a PK and be done with it. 

Would the PK neck be the way to go with the above styles too?  FWIW, the nailbomb neck is a big too bassy also.   

[IAMBR00TALZ]

Id try a rebel yell or an aftermath

[MDV]

Id try a rebel yell or an aftermath

Oh. Unexpected recommendation. When did you get your Aftermath?

I really hope you have one, because othewise I dont see how theres any way in hell you can have the experience to be able to make that recommendation, based off the right side of one clip and some verbal descriptions. This irks me, when the rest of us try to be as honest and certain in our advice as we can, and not say stuff we dont know anything about.

Hunter-killer

No, that cant work, sounds like youre going to kill much loved forumite Hunter.

Fear?

Thats not a name

213!

I'm not clear what you want from the neck! The PK is really cutting, sharp, but fluid and clear for a neck. When I say sharp, I dont mean harsh, btw, I mean sharp> Its way not harsh. Its sharp. Its also got a very tight bass, for a neck. Its also REALLY hot. Its a pure-bred shred, blistering shred pickup. Its cleans are OK, but there are far better clean/lead balances to be had with the likes of the cold sweat or holy diver. Depends what you want. I love my PK neck, because its a blistering lead pickup and sometimes I like to do that. I also love it because its the only ceramic neck Ive ever even not hated. But this may or may not be for you -

Say more stuff about what you want the neck to do.

I'm not familiar with the 59 I'm afraid. I've probably played loads alongside the ubiquitous JB in all those guitars that said 'seymour duncan' on the pickups, but not known it for sure at the time so cant really say.

[Fearhk213]

For the neck I do want something that does the lead & clean thing well so that would probably bypass the PK neck based on your description.  I also want something the splits well since I like a split neck for cleans.  However, when you say: "really cutting, sharp, but fluid and clear for a neck. When I say sharp, I dont mean harsh, btw, I mean sharp> Its way not harsh. Its sharp. Its also got a very tight bass, for a neck." that doesn't sound too far off tonally from what I want, that's just a more extreme version.  I like that what you describe addresses the abounding flub, lack of bite,  looseness, etc that plagues most necks.  So I want something that shares the qualities you describe, but maybe not so extreme/modern if that makes sense?

I’ve only played the 59 neck in this guitar so I can only tell you how it reacted with this axe.  The main thing that stuck out to me is it didn’t have the typical overly bloated low end that plagues necks.  It’s still warm, fluid, & smooth, but it seemed to have a bit more bite than many other necks I’ve played.  It’s on the lower output side so it’s clear & maintains nice dynamics.  Voicing is more vintage than modern, but no problems sounding good doing modern stuff if the amp has the gain on tap.  It cleans up really, really well with the volume and is equal at home doing leads & cleans.   

[MDV]

It does make sense, and in that case, and with what you like about your experience with the 59, I'd recommend the cold sweat neck.

[Fearhk213]

Thanks dude, I really appreciate the advice!

[MDV]

Youre welcome. I hope they work out for you!