Brand comparisons

[Doadman]

I have a funny feeling that this has been done before but I can't seem to find it.

It seems to me that while we're all agreed that Bare Knuckle pickups are the best you can buy, most people tend to think of pickups in terms of Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio so how do the individual Bare Knuckle pups compare to pickups by these manufacturers? For instance, which Bare Knuckle pickup would be the nearest to a DiMarzio Super Distortion or which DiMarzio or Seymour Duncan pickup would be the nearest to a Miracle Man etc.

[Philly Q]

It certainly has been discussed before.  :lol:

I think the general consensus (apologies if everyone disagrees) was "why should BKPs be defined in terms of other manufacturers' pickups?".  DiMarzio don't describe their pickups with reference to Seymour Duncan, or vice versa.  BKP pickups are designed in their own right, not as an "improved" version of a JB or whatever.

I know that sounds a bit pompous.  Of course other pickups are very useful as reference points, e.g.  if you have a Tone Zone and you want something with a bit less bass.

But we're never going to have a chart with "Cold Sweat = Duncan Custom = Gibson Dirty Fingers" or "Stormy Monday = Duncan Seth Lover = DiMarzio PAF Classic = Gibson 57 Classic" .  :P

[Doadman]

Yes, I accept your point and I do see the logic of it. This all came up for me because I was on another forum and somebody was asking about a pickup for a particular sound and the consensus was that he needed a DiMarzio Super Distortion. Now having owned a Super Distortion before I couldn't really argue with the advice as it is a great pickup for what he wanted but I felt sure that Bare Knuckle must do something that would give a similar tone but be 'better'. The trouble was, not only was I struggling, having not tried all Bare Knuckle pickups, but it also struck me that if I didn't know, there was virtually no chance he would, having never tried ANY Bare Knuckle pickups before. My instinct made me think of either a 'Cold SWeat' or 'Painkiller' but I reasoned I could be well wide of the mark so elected to say nothing. If in doubt, he will naturally go with the Super Distortion because it's well known and it defined the sound of an era but it could have been a sale for Bare Knuckle. It struck me that unless Bare Knuckle pickups could be referred to in terms that these people could understand, it was always going to be difficult, hence I had the idea of saying something like: 'If you're looking for something like a Super Distortion you might want to consider the Bare Knuckle ..........., which is even better because........

Still, it was just a thought and I believed it might help people new to the brand but if there is no appetite for it then I certainly won't lose sleep over it :)

[Philly Q]

On that specific question, I think it's been said before that the original, ceramic, Holy Diver would be the nearest BKP to the Super Distortion.  But I've never owned either, so I may be totally mis-remembering.

I do understand the problem.  I think the best thing to do when new to BKP is to take the plunge and buy one or two, based on the recommendation of Tim (and maybe even the forum!).  Every time you buy a new BKP and get to know it, you have another reference point when you're trying to get a "feel" for the rest of the range.

[Doadman]

That's interesting as my first thought was Holy Diver but the fact that it wasn't ceramic put me off and that's what moved me on to the Cold Sweat and Painkiller.

Personally I'd just ask Tim and buy whatever he says but then I've owned Bare Knuckle before so it's not such a leap in the dark but for the uninitiated it must be more daunting as BKP are a lot more expensive than DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan, especially if you're American.

[ericsabbath]

I thought you were one of the few owners of the old ceramic diver  :?

[Doadman]

I'm afraid not if you're referring to me. I had a set of Cold Sweats in my old guitar and at the moment I'm just starting to think about if it's worth changing the stock Seymour Duncans in my current guitar for Bare Knuckles.

[Dr. Vic]

PRS-wise, if i'm not mistaken I think I read that the HFS is somewhere in the PK- ballpark

But what *would be* a BKP brother for :
- a tremonti
- a modern eagle 
- a 57/08 ??

thanks !
 

[Philly Q]

PRS-wise, if i'm not mistaken I think I read that the HFS is somewhere in the PK- ballpark

But what *would be* a BKP brother for :
- a tremonti
- a modern eagle 
- a 57/08 ??

thanks !

Not a clue!  PRS keep the specs of their pickups very hush-hush.  You can take a DC resistance reading, but they don't reveal the types of wire or magnets they use.

[Doadman]

This has all crossed my mind once again since I started another thread investigating which Bareknuckle pickups may suit me for my SL3. Most people on the forum seem to suggest Holy Diver for the bridge but I'm not sure an Alnico is what I'm after as I generally favour ceramics that have great tone. Tim suggested the Miracle Man but I suspect that may be a bit too cutting and lacking the richness of tone I'm after. I think it's a similar DC resistance to the Seymour Duncan JB I have at the moment though obviously better quality. The JB is good but ultimately lacks that 'X' factor I want. It has more power than the 'Cold Sweat' I had in my last guitar but nothing like the quality of tone. The best non-BKP I've had in the past was a DiMarzio Super Distortion so something similar to that but better would be good. The trouble is I don't know whick BKP that would be. It used to be the ceramic Holy Diver but I assume it's not that anymore as that's Alnico V now and I'm pretty sure it's not the Miracle Man so I'm guessing either 'Cold Sweat' or 'Painkiller'.  I know the bridge 'Cold Sweat' has great tone but it may not be powerful enough to mate with Trilogy Suites so on that basis that would seem to leave the Painkiller by default but I still have no idea if it'll be right as I have no idea what other pups I can compare it to.

[AJM]

Not that its all that matters, but if you compare the resistance and magnetic type that should give you a pretty good comparison.  The Duncan Custom [ceramic @  14.1 k] is fairly comparable to the Cold Sweat [ceramic @ 14 k.] Now there's a lot more to pickups than just resistance and magnetic type, but both described as having a progressive vintage sound. The Custom is supposed to be a PAF on steroids and the Cold Sweat has "evolved vintage attitude". I own the Duncan SH-5 and plan on upgrading it to the Cold Sweat before too long because I like the sound, but want the BKP quality. Definitely wont be identical, but kind of the same vein.

[ericsabbath]

Not that its all that matters, but if you compare the resistance and magnetic type that should give you a pretty good comparison.  The Duncan Custom [ceramic @  14.1 k] is fairly comparable to the Cold Sweat [ceramic @ 14 k.] Now there's a lot more to pickups than just resistance and magnetic type, but both described as having a progressive vintage sound. The Custom is supposed to be a PAF on steroids and the Cold Sweat has "evolved vintage attitude". I own the Duncan SH-5 and plan on upgrading it to the Cold Sweat before too long because I like the sound, but want the BKP quality. Definitely wont be identical, but kind of the same vein.

run before Antag hits you in the head  :lol:


but in that case, I will agree
they don't sound alike, but they have similar EQ and output
but following your logic, the nailbomb would be pretty much like a JB, when it's actually voiced closer to a custom V in EQ terms, but punchier and less scooped (and that makes me wonder how an alnico 2 nailbomb or cold sweat would sound like)

the winding pattern, wire gauge and wire coating make a lot of diference
the duncan customs are 43 awg plain enamel, like the nailbomb and cold sweat
the JB and distortion are 44 awg poly coated, like the painkiller, warpig and miracle man (I'm not sure about the holy diver)

correction: miracle man is 45 awg

[Excruciator]

The Warpig and Miracle man are 45 awg, the diver is 44 awg. Not sure about the duncan custom being plain enamel, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it was 43 awg poly.

[AJM]

Not that its all that matters, but if you compare the resistance and magnetic type that should give you a pretty good comparison.  The Duncan Custom [ceramic @  14.1 k] is fairly comparable to the Cold Sweat [ceramic @ 14 k.] Now there's a lot more to pickups than just resistance and magnetic type, but both described as having a progressive vintage sound. The Custom is supposed to be a PAF on steroids and the Cold Sweat has "evolved vintage attitude". I own the Duncan SH-5 and plan on upgrading it to the Cold Sweat before too long because I like the sound, but want the BKP quality. Definitely wont be identical, but kind of the same vein.

run before Antag hits you in the head  :lol:


but in that case, I will agree
they don't sound alike, but they have similar EQ and output
but following your logic, the nailbomb would be pretty much like a JB, when it's actually voiced closer to a custom V in EQ terms, but punchier and less scooped (and that makes me wonder how an alnico 2 nailbomb or cold sweat would sound like)

the winding pattern, wire gauge and wire coating make a lot of diference
the duncan customs are 43 awg plain enamel, like the nailbomb and cold sweat
the JB and distortion are 44 awg poly coated, like the painkiller, warpig and miracle man (I'm not sure about the holy diver)

Wow... Talk about getting in over your head... I'm no where near to your level of expertise at all, but thanks for the clarification on the pick up designs. As to a JB being close to a Nailbomb I wouldn't have even ventured to guess. Just happened to own a SH-4 and noticed its stats and description were fairly close to Coldsweat and I knew from reading other postings that a good portion of your tone come from the type of magnet and output. Being stateside most people I talk to either play only Duncans (and country) or active EMGs in teenage metal bands. The only point I was trying to make, unwisely apparently, was that if you were desperate to make a comparison, magnetic type and output might be a place to start.

[ericsabbath]

The Warpig and Miracle man are 45 awg, the diver is 44 awg. Not sure about the duncan custom being plain enamel, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it was 43 awg poly.

miracle man is 45
I'm almost sure I've read the warpig is 44 somewhere in this forum (although 45 would make more sense)
but I might be wrong
my point is: dc resistance won't tell you the wire gauge/type