New here and I could use some advice.

[Bootsy]

Hello, nice to meet you. Here's Bootsy. :)

I hope somebody can give me some advice. I have a too dark sounding mahony Strat with a rosewood fretboard which should be brighten up to match a swamp ash G&L Tele with a maple neck and MFD pickups.

I was thinking about the Trilogy Suite but will it brighten up my Strat?

Many thanks in advance.

[Fourth Feline]

Hi Bootsy, and welcome !  :)

Unfortunately, I do not have your answer directly - but wanted to sign in and suggest that you let the more expert Strat users on here know what sort of sounds, bands and players you would like to lean in the direction of, before the 'Big Boys' sign in later.

For example, the Trilogy might be thought of as relatively high gain teritorry - and the Irish tours 'spicy' but more old school. The Apache's might still 'fit' - but would be clearer and more dynamic in more of a 50's vibe e.t.c.

I look forward to seeing you get the input you need.  :)

[Bootsy]

Hey Fourth Feline, thanks for your answer.

The band I play in is a Pop/Rock/Funk band. So sometimes I need sweetness, sometimes I need dirt.

I would especially like try to match the Strat pickups with the G&L ASAT MFD pickups as I use both guitars in the same set.

Right now the situation is that the ASAT is rather bright and the Strat rather dark. I don't want to change the G&L pickups. The MDF pickups have a higher output ( a bit less than P90's I believe) than regular single coils but probably not as much as the Trilogy Suite. But perhaps I can turn them down on the pickguard to match the volume. (That what I did now with the MFD's)

Anyway, I'm really open for all suggestions.

Most important thing: brighten up the dark Strat.

[MDV]

I'm much more of a high output humbuckers for metal type chap but I'd expect that Irish Tours will do what you ask (I've had them on 500k pots and they're still plenty clear and bright). They should also suit your styles well. Another option may be mothers milks.

But do wait for the strat dudes to confirm or deny this.

And, welcome.

[38thBeatle]

Hello Bootsy, welcome to the forum. I am not sure about the mahogany to be frank but I wouldn't mind betting that Mothers Milks would do the job. I don't have a set but have played a guitar which had them in and I would think that they'd have the balance you'd be after and a bit of pickup height fine tuning should have you in the right area. I was going to say Slowhands as a possible option but if the guitar is overly dark then it might highlight the mids a little.

[Bootsy]

Thanks MDV. & 38thBeatle

I'm actually glad that you mention it because Mothers Milks is what I have right now. (I'm sorry, my mistake)
They sound good, but too dark with the woods used.

[38thBeatle]

Ah I see. Well have you had a play with the height of the pickups? Worthwhile having a mess around before you change.

[Ian Price]

Ah I see. Well have you had a play with the height of the pickups? Worthwhile having a mess around before you change.

Totally agree with that - the stock pickups I had my my old '57 reissue didn't show much change when height adjusting them. It's much more noticeable with BKPs.

[Bootsy]

Aha, I didn't know that.

So I suppose putting the pickups higher will give more high end?


Now, the luthier willing to try another set of Strat BK.

So, besides fiddling with the pickup height, what set would you recommend?

[gordiji]

hi bootsy, i like irish tours and they can do everything.i 'd imagine they'd be darker in a mahogany body.if you
                 already have mm's installed in it however, in your position i'd try and find the benefits of them, without
                 comparing them to a 'fixed idea' sound which often leads to dissapointment.
                 i had two 90's asat teles, both great , one maple one rosewood and they where both much more middy
                 and less bighting than fender tele's.pros & cons.
                 maybe changing the bridge pup only would be enough to change the strats character.
                 the IT bridge (without baseplate) is my fave bkp(i have bg's & vh11)   
                 thinking outloud really, good luck

[38thBeatle]

Regarding height; I start by lowering the pickups so that they are just proud of the scratchplate and then raising them by increments and trying the tone on a trial and error basis. I more or less know these days but that only came about by messing. I do one at a time and I also keep both ends of the pickup at the same height unless there is a real imbalance between the strings. You'll probably find that to get a balance between the pickups you will have the bridge slightly higher than the mid and possibly( but not always) the mid higher than the neck. Some raise the treble side but I tend not to but that is just how I have them. Strats are very sensitive to pickup height in my experience and it might just fix your problem. I'd have thought MM's would work well in your guitar though I have the same caveat that I said earlier in that I have no experience of a mahogany Strat.

[Telerocker]

I have the IT's and think they can work in a mahagony guitar. A treble-booster might help too.

[AndyR]

Hi, and hmmmm...

I have a "dark sounding" CIJ Strat - alder body, rosewood board.

I had trouble getting enough top end bite out of it with both ITs and Sultans. I didn't know quite how dark it was until I got a couple of Roadworns and put the pickups in those...

Like 38th, I was going to suggest Mother's Milks, but I haven't tried them. I strongly suspect that Mother's Milks is the brightest option (ITs have extra mids I believe) - mebbe ask Tim about this - but you're using them already.


In the next couple of weeks my CIJ gets the Sultans back (the 50s Roadworn gets Apaches) - it wasn't the tone I was originally reaching for, but it is a lovely tone I can use and would like to explore, and the other guitars do produce the tone I was after... (There is a later option of switching things around again and trying Apaches in there - but that's after I find out what they do to the Roadworn...)

I'm also going to replace the CIJ's bridge assembly with a steel one (or possibly just the trem-block). That should give me a bit more, and I'll call it a day on that one and start loving it again just as it is...

My gut feeling, from all this, is that you're not going to be able to brighten up a dark strat in comparision to another strat with BKPs alone. ITs didn't do it for me, Sultans didn't do it for me either (they're as bright as ITs but sweeter).
 
BKP's really bring out what the guitar itself brings to the party. I've personally found this really shows on strats - two guitars, one dark, one bright, sounded HUGELY different with the same set of BKP strat pickups. When I started checking it out, I found the difference is already there, unamplified - I just have accept guitar A does not sound like guitar B.


However, I have learnt some stuff over the last couple of years. Here are some other guitar-based things to look at that might squeeze a bit more brightness out:

Yes, pickup height - further from the strings is clearer/skinnier. And angling them higher on the treble side can give a bit more brightness.

Assuming it's a trem guitar, try taking the backplate off. That can sometimes make a difference, no idea why.

What is the bridge assembly made of? I didn't believe in this until recently, but a steel block does actually make a difference.

What's on the back of the neck and how thick is it? I stripped mine and the guitar got a little more airy (this was a bit of a surprise - I did it without even slackening the strings, so it wasn't a "new set of strings makes me think my tone changed" scenario :lol:)

Start fiddling with the potentiometers and tone capacitors. If you've got paper-in-oil (PIO) caps, take them out immediately and put bog standard ceramic caps in - in my experience that brightens things up a little on a dark guitar (if you don't fancy those, try orange drops - they're not quite as "smoothing" as PIO). Also experiment with the cap values - some folks are convinced that this has far more effect than what they're made of. I've tried .022 (as used for humbuckers) and .033 instead of .047 - I don't really like how the tone controls behave with those, but they do make you feel like the guitar is a touch brighter. Also, try pots with higher values - not tried this myself yet, but I suspect it might do something...


Anyway, welcome to the forum :D and good luck. Hope you get sorted, it's been bugging me for a couple of years!

[PhilKing]

Irish Tours are the brightest Strat pickups, especially if you get a reverse magnet stagger!  I think the Mother's Milks are slightly mellower.  A5 Apaches are also brightish, depending on the guitar.  I have Mother's Milks in an alder body guitar with a vaneer rosewood neck.  A5 Apaches are in a Swamp Ash body/Maple neck.  Irish Tours have been in a few guitars, but are now in a hollow Strat with a maple cap and maple neck.  I think Tirlogy's are quite neutral with a lot more umph (swap ash body/ebony/maple neck).

[AndyR]

Irish Tours are the brightest Strat pickups, especially if you get a reverse magnet stagger!  I think the Mother's Milks are slightly mellower.  A5 Apaches are also brightish, depending on the guitar.  I have Mother's Milks in an alder body guitar with a vaneer rosewood neck.  A5 Apaches are in a Swamp Ash body/Maple neck.  Irish Tours have been in a few guitars, but are now in a hollow Strat with a maple cap and maple neck.  I think Tirlogy's are quite neutral with a lot more umph (swap ash body/ebony/maple neck).

Thanks for that Phil - that's certainly put my mind at rest over the decision I've made for my "dark" strat. I was toying with trying MMs... but if ITs are brighter, then I already know that didn't work for me :lol:.

Like I said, Sultans are going back in the CIJ for me - I already liked that tone, but I was trying to make the guitar do something else that it just don't want to do. If the steel hardware improves it, that'll be a plus :D

(But there's always that nagging "why haven't I got MMs?" - sigh, I need another guitar obviously :lol:)

Bootsy - if anything then, it sounds like ITs might be worth a go. But, from my experience, I'd say don't be surprised if the change isn't huge.