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Author Topic: Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b  (Read 11560 times)

5F6-A

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« on: December 17, 2005, 08:32:16 PM »
I've been told by a friend the the caps that  Gibson installs these days in its Historic Custom  Shop guitars aren't real bumblebees at all. They look like the real thing but this guy x-rayed one and opened it later on only to find a modern  Wesco Ref. 32PL cap made of polipropilen film ( 22nF ) within the "fake" plstic covering. Isn't  that outrageous or what??!!
The whole story ( in Spanish ) plus photos here:
http://foros.guitarramania.com/viewtopic.php?t=49106

What do you think??
"I now consider atheism to be brutal because it offers neither consolation nor liberty of any kind" Benjamin Constant in 1804
"Practice until you can hear the metronome grooving" Carol Kaye

Searcher

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Re: Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2005, 09:05:55 PM »
Quote from: 5F6-A
What do you think??


I think these days Gibsons suck. I went in to a local music store recently and played around with some of the Gibsons on display and they all had quality control issues. One had a ding and the finish had sunk into the wood in a really ugly way; one had the worst bookmatched top of all time; another had scratches; others had things wrong with them, but I forget the details; and so on. And here's the thing: those guitars weren't cheap! They hadn't been reduced like crazy; they were still going for very high prices--thousands and thousands!

I've heard stories like this from other people everywhere, so it's not just an isolated incident. Gibson are producing inferior instruments too often and still charging like they're the best around. They use their marketing campaigns to cover for them instead of actually improving their quality control. And it seems to work pretty well for them; everywhere I look I see some teenage guy playing power chords on a low-slung Les Paul.

I don't want to offend people here who play Gibsons--though it's probably too late--but it gets to me when I see big companies who don't seem to care about the people they're selling to, so long as people are paying.

[Waits for flaming to start.]  :twisted:
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_tom_

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2005, 09:45:52 PM »
For the price Gibsons are going for, you could probably get a totally perfect custom LP for the same price or less! I wasnt impressed with the ones I played, they honestly didnt feel any better than my Epiphone.

dave_mc

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2005, 09:53:56 PM »
i think les pauls are a damn sight better than (stock) epis (i know yours has BK's, tom ;) )

are they worth the price? i haven't tried enough LP clones/copies/whatever_you_want_to _call_them of a similar price to tell...

they're nice guitars, but are dear for what they are, IMO...

do i still want one? you bet, if i can find one without the quality control issues, at a reasonable price. And, assuming I don't find a much better example from another make/brand at a lesser price.

willo

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2005, 09:56:58 PM »
I was an Epiphone player with my first guitars, and when I got the chance to buy my first 'proper' Gibson (although only a studio, still £900 is enough for a 19 year old at the time), and after that I shant be buying anymore Gibsons. I like the neck shapes, so now I've gone custom to get a strat made with the neck profile I want. If that works out, then thats how I'll be going from now on. I've said it before, but I was just pretty damn dissapointed with my Gibson!

The only Gibson I could think of buying now would be the Les Paul Special Doublecut, simply because you can pick up one for under £500 and I want some p90s...


Regardless, what are these 'bumblebees'? Are they the tone pots or something?
The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away...

5F6-A

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2005, 10:16:59 PM »
Quote from: willo


Regardless, what are these 'bumblebees'? Are they the tone pots or something?


Yeah that's right. Those were used in vintage examples.
Tone caps in Les Pauls affect the overall tone because they behave very much like a resistor; depending on  waht material they are made ( among other factors ) they change the pot's load.
"I now consider atheism to be brutal because it offers neither consolation nor liberty of any kind" Benjamin Constant in 1804
"Practice until you can hear the metronome grooving" Carol Kaye

Elliot

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2005, 11:48:04 PM »
Im a Fender fanatic myself and not a particularly good guitarist -  but I recently played some Gibsons and the best of the bunch was the P90'd dc Les Paul Special - the cheapest of the lot at £500.  So go figure - a LP Standard at £1200 had sharp fretwire and a more cumbersome neck than the £500 budget Gibson which was perfect.

Strange....
BKPS: Milks, P90s, Apaches, Mississippi Queens, Mules, PG Blues, BG FP 50s, e.60s strat custom set


The amazing Phil

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2005, 10:13:53 AM »
I think it's time we finally admit to ourselves that Gibson doesn't exist anymore, it's just a con-man in a Gibson suit, with rights to the Gibson name. It's just another company copying Gibson, only they can do so legitimately and claim Gibson's heritage is theirs. And yes, thousands will be suckered into it, but if they're happy and the other stuff stays cheaper as a result I won't complain.

Floyd Pepper

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2005, 11:48:10 AM »
Quote
Gibson doesn't exist anymore


Don't agree with you there.  I brought my son a Gibson SG Special 2 years ago and it's a great guitar.  Around the same time I got myself a Gordon Smith GS-2.  I sold the GS as I couldn't bring myself to play it after playing the SG.  The SG was so much better than the GS.
Mother's Milk.  Mullard.  Cornford.  Mmmmm....

Kilby

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.
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2005, 01:09:41 PM »
Hmm,

not owning a gibson it's hard for me to judge, but everytime this thread turns up it's always les pauls that are complained about.

Is it only the LPs or is it the whole gibson range. Having recently tried the double cuts and a few SGs I thought they where pretty nice guitars and where not out classed by the Tokai (for example) equivalents.

I know most people dislike the stock pickups (thets why everybody is here after all).

IMHO Fender had to raise the bar in the 80 & 90s with their US made instruments simply because people where saying that the MIJ models where better.

As for whole business about caps (and carbon comp resistors), certainly from those in the know on the stompbox world it's up there with the audiophile notion that only mahogany knobs on control pots give proper sound reproduction.

Yeah I know mica caps have a different signiture to ceramic (and whatever other comparasons you wish to list). But theres bigger issues than wether it's a goldfish, rainbow or 'standard' cap installed.

Rob...
Goodbye London !

5F6-A

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2005, 04:24:02 PM »
My intention is not to claim that Gibson's guitars are rubbish. I'm a  very happy user  of a 91 les Paul std. What I tried to say is how big names sometimes use dodgy techniques to fool people.

The new bumblebess caps are NOT like the old ones but rather made to look like the old ones. Mind you, a brand new Fender Twin Reverb looks 100% like an old BF Twin Reverb but what you find inside is not quite what you expected.

  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
"I now consider atheism to be brutal because it offers neither consolation nor liberty of any kind" Benjamin Constant in 1804
"Practice until you can hear the metronome grooving" Carol Kaye

lulusg

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2005, 04:38:36 PM »
If it is tone we are after nowdays, we have to put it back on the guitar. They do not sell it anymore. It is time and money consuming. Lots of trial and error.  :)
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Kilby

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2005, 04:46:57 PM »
Quote from: 5F6-A
My intention is not to claim that Gibson's are rubbish. I'm a  very happy user   of a 91 les Paul std. WhatI tried to say is how big names sometimes use dodgy techniques to fool people.

The new bumblebess caps are NOT like the old ones but made to look like the old ones. Mind you, a brand new Fender Twin Reverb looks 100% like an old BF Twin Reverb but what you find inseide is not quite the same.

  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:


Unfortunitely this is the nature of big business, lets squeeze more money out of the customer but also lower the cost of whatever it is we produce.

Though remember Gibson may well have asked for a vintage spec (orange) cap and received an orange cap that is in the ballpark.

Though in saying that there is probably a huge stock of eith NOS caps or a mfgr who for an extra $0.05 per 100 could have made sure of the 'real thing' being used. After all how many caps a year whould they have to buy for their custom shop guitars (they charge enough).

In the world of electronics, look at the efforts marshall have had to go to to release their hand wired amps (and the associated cost), and they're still different (but apparently close)

Even building a fuzz box to vintage specs is almost impossible mfgrs change their transistor & diode specs without notice, and a special run for anything less than a couple of million componants isn't an option.

I jusy can't help wondering if the real production problems that Gibson are thought to have applies across their whole range as it was in the case of Gretch and Fender.

Unfortunitely it's a case of compromise :( but it dosn't excuse mistepresentation (for want of a better term).

Rob...
Goodbye London !

Ratrod

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Gibson's new bumblebees aren't quite what they're meant to b
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2005, 04:54:35 PM »
Instead of trying to make replicas of vintage guitars/amps etc. Can't they figure out something that's simply better?

Kinda like BKP does; vintage pickups were handwound, BKP scatterwinds and wax pots them. Wich all results in a product that's better than vintage.

I'm sure someone makes a resistance cap that's better than the bumblebee.
BKP user since 2004: early 7K Blackguard 50