Pedal Vs. Amp Distortion

[Doadman]

I've been looking for a new amp head and as I've always liked the sound of Marshalls but also high gain, I've been considering the Marshall JVM410 and the Blackstar HT Stage 100. However, my experience with my current amp has made me start to question the whole point of this.

I've got a Marshall DSL401 but I find the amp's own distortions to be a bit mushy (gain set at 6)so I use a Bad Monkey in front with the gain on zero and the level maxed out. This tightens it up beautifully and I like it a lot but the down side is that when I engage my MXR boost pedal for solos, it has virtually no impact at all on the volume. To get around this problem I bought a Hardwire Metal Distortion pedal to use on the clean channel. The distortion is fantastic and even at less than half boost, the MXR pedal sends the volume through the roof. I'm left wondering why I'm bothering trying to find a good amp for distortions. Why don't I just buy any amp with a good clean channel and lots of headroom and use pedals for all of my distortion? I could keep the Metal Distortion pedal, use a bit of gain on the Bad Monkey for a Bluesy crunch and buy a Hardwire Valve Distortion pedal to do everything inbetween. Wouldn't that be just as effective and probably cheaper or am I missing something?

[Brow]

I can't say which is better, but I've just come at this from the opposite side of things as you have  :lol:

For the last 5 years or so I've used a clean amp and have got all my OD and Distortion from pedals. Up until the last year or so (since I've not been gigging) I found this to be fine.

But since I've gone back more to my 70s and 80s Rock roots, I've found it's just not cutting it. I've also started branching out into higher output pickups (instead of the PAF style I've mainly used) and find that I just don't like the sound of a higher output pickup into a OD/Distortion pedal.

This led to me buying a new amp with really good OD channels/modes and I've found I'm now selling most of my gain pedals.

Like I said earlier, I can't say which is best for you or what you do but I've found a better amp with decent OD is working better for me at this moment in time than pedals are.

[Twinfan]

You've hit the point where there are two routes:

Clean amp and pedals - as per Dave Gilmour
Multi channel/mode amp or multiple amps - as per Slash

Neither is right or wrong, neither is better.  It's what works best for you.  As you've headed down this road, why not try the full pedal approach and see if you like it?

[kevinr]

I allways pulled a great lead sound using 50 watt JCM800 with a good dist pedal.

[tekbow]

I always like to have a variety of OD's/distortions running into a "just past dirty" channel or a cleanish - to dirty boost running into a lead channel. lots of flavours to be had.

[BigB]

I've got a Marshall DSL401 but I find the amp's own distortions to be a bit mushy (gain set at 6)so I use a Bad Monkey in front with the gain on zero and the level maxed out. This tightens it up beautifully and I like it a lot but the down side is that when I engage my MXR boost pedal for solos, it has virtually no impact at all on the volume.

(snip)

I'm left wondering why I'm bothering trying to find a good amp for distortions. Why don't I just buy any amp with a good clean channel and lots of headroom and use pedals for all of my distortion?

(snip)

Wouldn't that be just as effective and probably cheaper or am I missing something?

Strange enough, I currently face the same problem (using a HRDx but that's not the point). Now the point is: I find distortion pedals on a (pristine) clean channel to sound kinda "fake", and really prefer the feel I get with an overdriven input stage (eventually colored and pushed a bit further by a dirtbox) and a "about to break up" output stage. 

I suppose the "best solution" would be to get me a "better" multichannel amp, but from all the 30/50 watters I could try locally (and I tried quite a fews) the HRDx was the closest (even if not quite there) to my tastes tone-wise, and I can't afford a 2 or 3 grand boutique amp anyway.

So as far as I'm concerned, the solution I'm thinking of is twofold:

1/ modding the HRDx preamp circuit to make it a bit better (known mods, some of them now builtin in the serie II hotrods) so I only use dirtboxes for adding some color and hair (instead of first "fixing" the amp's tone)

2/ adding a footswitchable "master" volume pot between the preamp and poweramp (will try in the loop at first, then eventually add it to the amp's circuit) so I can get that little extra volume (and output stage distortion) for leads.

The point is that given the preamp gain level I already use for rythm / backing parts, beating the front end harder isn't going to give me enough of a boost for the lead parts anyway.

My 2 cents...

[Doadman]

I have been giving some thought to my next amp, though there are things I want to do first like Bareknuckles for my Jackson. My first thought was a Marshall JVM410 as I know I can pick up a used one for £600 and they seem very versatile but their reputation is somewhat less than overwhelmingly positive. I've also thought of a Blackstar HT Stage 100 as they are also £600 but I've ended up concerned that I'd have the same problem I have with my DSL401 in that it won't boost solos very well. Any other suggestions would be welcome.

Because the Hardwire Metal Distortion pedal produces a fantastic sound going into the clean channel of my amp I started to think it might be a whole lot easier to just buy an amp head with a decent clean channel and lots of headroom and get my distortion exclusively from pedals. I daresay that when the time comes I'll go and try something like the Blackstar first but the question of whether there was any particular advantage to amp or pedal based distortions interested me so I thought I'd ask. The other question of course is that if I do decide to just use pedals for distortion, what sort of amp head should I be looking at for a £600 budget. I'm guessing at something with EL34's as those amps are generally the tone I like. I was wondering if a Marshall DSL100 would work well as Iron Maiden use them but as far as I know, they're not using the preamp stage.

[Transcend]

The tsl would work great for you.

Its similar in character to the DSL but has the third channel

i have my sounds as follows

clean
channel 2 (crunch) clean boosted to get me into metal territory
then channel 3 also with the boost engaged but witha  higher volume setting for leads.


works an absolute treat.

[Transcend]

also you can pick up the head and a 4x12 for about £400-500 on ebay nowadays

[dave_mc]

I generally prefer amp distortion. But as Dave says, I think it's very much personal preference, dependent on what works for you, and also on what type of music you play.

[hunter]

I prefer amp distortion.

What I don't like is having to use FX loops for delays, as they usually degrade the tone compared to the amp without using the loop. If you use pedals into a cleanish amp, you can use any true bypass delay pedal after the dirt pedals and won't have that issue.

I think a Marshall JCM or JMP with a DS-1 or Tubescreamer is hard to beat in that sense, looking at the tones some people get like this.

But for me amp overdrive always seems to work better, it just seems more punchy, more dynamic and more "real" to me (it's also a feel thing).

I think this is mainly because I usually cannot turn my amps up enough, and the Pedal=>Marshall combination starts to sound glorious mainly when the amp is pushed beyond 5 on the master.

[AndyR]

I generally prefer amp distortion. But as Dave says, I think it's very much personal preference, dependent on what works for you, and also on what type of music you play.

+1

I don't go for nearly as much drive nowadays as I know some of you guys do, but I'm definitely in the "I prefer the amp doing it on it's own" camp.

Interesting that Dave (Twinfan) seems to be heading that direction at the moment himself after much time with pedals. I'm sure he's not going to suddenly ditch the pedals, but it seems a good example of it being personal preference and that your preference might change with time and with what you're trying to achieve.

When I was younger and starting to gig, I was always trying to get x, y, or z happening, wondering which bit of kit I needed to acquire to get to where I thought I wanted my sound to go. Then when loads of gigs happened I found out that half the stuff I was trying to achieve was actually in how I used the kit I already had.

This was partly by default - we didn't have the time or money to invest in getting new stuff - you have to perform with what's coming out of the speakers that night, so you get used to it and learn to make it work for you.

But it was also our sound engineer feeding me back with "why don't you learn how to use that bluddy amp properly!" Helpful bar-steward... but actually he did help, LOADS.

I'd say "but it sounds ok on stage, it's the sound I want, it's like Rory Gallagher, -ish" (this was Rory's early 80s "metal" sound). And he'd go "it might sound ok in your bedsit, but it sounds awful out front at a gig, you don't fit with the bass and drums, I have to keep turning you down, and you're the bluddy lead vox/git in a three-piece!! Have you actually listened to Rory Gallagher's sound? A) You sound nothing like it, and B) you're not really playing that kind of music anyway..." etc, etc... :roll: He made me question why the knobs were there on the amp, and more importantly why I'd set them like I'd set them. Then he explained how the knobs worked, and after a while he was feeding me back with "great sound out front tonight..."

I think either way will work for you. Or, more importantly, you can make either way work for you. One way might indeed be better for you in the long run, but you're only going to be able to find that out by trying stuff out.

It's not the route I'd try myself for what I'm trying to achieve at the moment, but I think the following is a really good suggestion:

As you've headed down this road, why not try the full pedal approach and see if you like it?

It will get you somewhere close, it takes advantage of some of the kit and experience you already have, and it gets you some more knowledge/experience of how kit behaves for you :D

One thing though - you're never really gonna be happy with your guitar sound from one day to the next, ever... none of us ever will be... and what's even funnier, all our guitar-tone-heroes, the sounds we're reaching for, they're not always happy with the sounds they're making either :lol:

[gwEm]

I prefer amp distortion.

What I don't like is having to use FX loops for delays, as they usually degrade the tone compared to the amp without using the loop. If you use pedals into a cleanish amp, you can use any true bypass delay pedal after the dirt pedals and won't have that issue.

I think a Marshall JCM or JMP with a DS-1 or Tubescreamer is hard to beat in that sense, looking at the tones some people get like this.

But for me amp overdrive always seems to work better, it just seems more punchy, more dynamic and more "real" to me (it's also a feel thing).

I think this is mainly because I usually cannot turn my amps up enough, and the Pedal=>Marshall combination starts to sound glorious mainly when the amp is pushed beyond 5 on the master.

this is an interesting perspective hunter. i also prefer amp distortion, but with the right pedal you can change the character just enough in a particular direction, and this can also depend on the guitar you use.

my favourite three boosters - OD1, Thundertomate Hilbourne and modded GE-7 are all in great with my Marshall 2204, but it depends on the guitar i use.

so i think 85% amp, and 15% pedal. i should say, i usually leave the pedal switched on all the time usually on a more subtle setting. perhaps one day i'll get into using a pedal for leads. my amp really suits that.

my PAF-type pickup Vs and strats sound like liquid joy with the Tomate Hilbourne and my 2204.. my favourite tone at the moment :)

the organic nature of valve distortion is for me the best, but a bit of synthetic spice from a pedal can really move a tone from good, to godly

[AndyR]

but a bit of synthetic spice from a pedal can really move a tone from good, to godly

This is probably the bit I'm missing :lol:

But my gut feeling (from using the odd overdrive pedal as a boost over the years when i was gigging) is that it only really comes into its own some way above my modest "let's drown out Strictly Come Dancing on the TV" volume...

[Ribboz]

I would have to say, the very best option is a perfect mix of both. I've played amps with days of gain. But I can't get into the feel, without my tube screamer plugged in.  I mean amp distortion gives your tone dynamics, but pedal distortion can affect the way it feels. So Both mixed is my vote.

OH but if your talking about when an amps ONLY distortion is from a pedal. Then I would have to vote on the amp. :\ Pedal distortion just kills dynamics.

Edit: Dynamics as in, I feel like pedal distortion kinda squashing the tone range.