riff raff vs vhii

[braintheory]

How do these two pickups compare to eachother?  Which one has more highs? Which one has sharper highs?  Which one is tighter?  Which one is rawer?  Which has more oomph for powerchords?

[braintheory]

also, do either of these pickups sounds boxy because of their midrange voicing?  I have a Painkiller bridge in one of my guitars and I find it a little boxy sometimes because of its mids. 

[Twinfan]

Neither of them were boxy in the guitars I had them in.  The Riff Raff has equal winds on each coil I believe and I find the Riff Raff to be quite a neutral sounding pickup - balanced, clear, quite bright but not too much.

The VHII has very offset coil windings, and to my ears it's more like a hot hum cancelling single coil than a 'normal' humbucker.  It's brighter than the Riff Raff and not as meaty.

So to answer your questions:

More highs?  VHII
Sharper highs?  VHII
Tighter?  VHII (more single coil like)
Rawer?  Neither (both have the classic BKP character)
More oomph?  Riff Raff

[ericsabbath]

from Tim:
"To be honest the Riff Raff has the best bite of the 42 AWG PE wound h/buckers"
"the VHII has a softer mid with more bass than the Riff Raff"

[gwEm]

i like both pickups :)

i do agree with Tim the VH2 has more bass than the riff raff, its quite noticeable in fact. both are quite tight pickups though, for PAFs, due to the A5 magnets.

twinfan states the riff raff is a neutral sounding pickup. in the past i've not quite agreed with that.. but recently i've put my riff raff set in a different guitar, and now i know exactly what he means, since it is completely neutral in the new guitar.

i had the riff raffs first in a guitar with what i now realise has slightly scooped mid, and the riff raffs really brought that character out, in the form of a raw and ultradry bite - which was really fine, but very distinctive. the new guitar is more neutral, and the riff raffs reflect that.

my VH2 is in an alder body super-jazzmaster, where it does have a quite pronounced high and good cut, but i wouldn't describe it as a bite - its just a question of metaphors and characters. the vh2 is a little compressed (as much as a PAF can be, which isn't really!)

neither pickup sounds boxy, both are open.

[braintheory]

so the vhii has a lot of high end, but not much bite?  I don't want smooth treble.  I want a raw, aggressive, crunchy, open sound.  The clips I heard of the riff raffs had that and they also sounded very dry in a good way that made them sound very edgy.  But the vhii clips I heard also sounded very good, but were more saturated and less raw.  I don't know which one to choose.

[Telerocker]

I like most of the VHII clips and they don't sound very single coilish to me, but I don't have experience with this pickup, nor with the Riff Raff, so I can hardly judge on this theme.

[gordiji]

having a bridge vhii i wanted to chip in but didn't know how to articulate my experience, but no need, twinfan's nailed it (above); it does have a single coil quality, esp clean. it has plenty of hi's and bite. it's a versatile all rounder for me, very detailed, clean or driven to any degree.mine's in an lp copy(good 'n)
i know nothing of the riff raff; 

[ericsabbath]

riff raff can sound very single coilish as well
it has a very bright sparkly top
just not thin like a single coil
mids are VERY open sounding
everytime I hit a chord I get some kind of "fresh air" in the mids that I never had with other pickups
it really amazes me
my 80's gibson tim shaw and my 90's prs mccarty pups just can't deliver that sensation

[gordiji]

i was careful to say 'single coil quality', it's a humbucker sound (reading back through the thread it looks like i contradict telerocker, not my intention!)
this is why it's ALWAYS a million times better to listen to clips rather than words.

[Nolly]

I agree with all of the descriptions in this thread  :)

braintheory, I think you could choose either to be honest. You could also consider the Emerald - plenty of bite with that pickup!

[Twinfan]

I like most of the VHII clips and they don't sound very single coilish to me, but I don't have experience with this pickup, nor with the Riff Raff, so I can hardly judge on this theme.

Clips aren't ideal, as you don't know exactly how they sound in the room 'raw' or how they feel to play.  They give an idea though.

I would say that the Riff Raff is a little thicker sounding than the VHII, mayvbe a touch more polite.  The VHII is a bit cleaner and clearer sounding, and more single coil style (a little scooped).

[Telerocker]

I like most of the VHII clips and they don't sound very single coilish to me, but I don't have experience with this pickup, nor with the Riff Raff, so I can hardly judge on this theme.

Clips aren't ideal, as you don't know exactly how they sound in the room 'raw' or how they feel to play.  They give an idea though.

I would say that the Riff Raff is a little thicker sounding than the VHII, mayvbe a touch more polite.  The VHII is a bit cleaner and clearer sounding, and more single coil style (a little scooped).

Thanks for the info. I know clips give often just a hint of the sound/character of a pickup. But they are the only benchmark, when you haven't played this pickup. Nevertheless, I like the vocal qualities of the VHII.

[braintheory]

Based on the clips I heard the Riff Raff sounds more aggressive, crunchy, and open, while the vhii sounds more compressed, smoother, saturated, and maybe a bit more tight and focused.  Would you guys agree?

[Catalyst77]

I often find it difficult to properly articulate the differences between pickups as so much of it is subjective and subject to sooooo many other variables, i would echo previous comments that the riff raff, to me, appears to be very neutral. FWIW i think the VH2 is a much more interesting sounding pickup, it definitely has more complex undertones.

I wouldnt say either that it has more saturation, it has great string seperation, i wouldnt say it was fluid, but its definitely a tad tighter.

In the scheme of things i'm sure both would be equally versatile at whatever you want to do.