Hello again- Yet another SG thread

[Vilches3]

Hey guys, I haven't been on here in a long while. I just started getting more into the idea of upgrading my SG special. Its a great guitar but the stock pickups suck. I just wanted to not only make it sound better, but wanted to sort of upgrade it as a tribute to my father who passed away around a year ago. He got me the SG to inspire me to keep playing, because he was unable to ever learn due to his difficult upbringing. Anyhow, most of my guitars are metal machines, and I wanted to make this guitar softer in comparison.

I'm looking for something that can bite, but is rich in mids, not too thin- and can compliment the SG's natural voicing. I noticed that the stock pickups don't sound natural with the SG's voicing at all. I guess guitar players with a tone close to what I'm looking for are Clapton/ Slash/ Hendrix/ and Page. I'm looking to switch out the neck pup as well. I was thinking maybe Riff Raff/ MQ or Riff Raff/ Stormy Monday or maybe Riff Raff/ Manhattan? (manhattan because I do like to play jazz as well)?

Oh and here's where it gets a little tricky. When I drive the guitar I want to be able to get just enough gain to get a later  Faith No More type of sound. I want it to be very diverse, but not a fire breathing demon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTD1yih-Es4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZpnVKCXBEo&feature=related

I understand this may be difficult because SG's are so picky when it comes to pickups. I don't have the funding just yet so I don't want to bug Tim about it so soon haha. I've gotta cover a headstock repair and a nut replacement first. Oh and my rig is an Eleven Rack at the moment, so I can cover many amp styles.

Thanks a bunch !!

Rob

[Telerocker]

A Riff Raff will do fine.

[ericsabbath]

the riff raff is not really "rich in mids"
more of a bright and very edgy tone
mids are VERY open and smooth, but more in the scooped side compared to most BKP humbuckers
how about a black dog?

[Vilches3]

the riff raff is not really "rich in mids"
more of a bright and very edgy tone
mids are VERY open and smooth, but more in the scooped side compared to most BKP humbuckers
how about a black dog?

I love the black dog. But I've heard its a very dark pickup, would the black dog not sound too dark in an SG? I've heard the SG can be really really picky when it comes to pickups, thats why I didnt think Black Dog. But if a black dog can really shine through an SG i'd go for it. I played it once and loved the hell out of it, but it was in an all maple guitar, which is near opposite of an SG

[Telerocker]

I thought Riff Raff's work fine in (all mahagony) SG's. Especially for the tones you're after.

[Vilches3]

I thought Riff Raff's work fine in (all mahagony) SG's.

would it not sound too harsh? I love that Angus young tone, but would it be easy to dial that out and play some less edgy stuff? I'd wanna be able to play some mellower stuff as well.

Oh and how about the neck position?- looking for something that is very very clear, warm and can do jazz and some 60's  rock tones as well.

Thanks for all the responses!

[Telerocker]

You could consider a Riff Raff for the bridge and a MQ for the neck. Too bright? Use your toneknob and dime the treble on your amp. That's how I tame my tele.

[Vilches3]

You could consider a Riff Raff for the bridge and a MQ for the neck. Too bright? Use your toneknob and dime the treble on your amp. That's how I tame my tele.

hmm. I'll probably go that route unless someone can confirm that a Black Dog would sound really nice out of an SG. The queens can handle soft jazz? apologies if I'm asking too many specific questions haha. Thanks!

[Telerocker]

I think the MQ can. The alternative would be a Stormy Monday AII. You can ask Fourth Feline, he knows all about the Stormy Mondays (very musical/vocal pickups). And you can ask the guys at BKP what they recommend for the bridge. I don't see Black Dogs often in SG's. Could be a tad on the dark side.

Better ask too much before you buy something you don't like afterwards.

[Philly Q]

I had a Black Dog (bridge) in a V, so pretty similar to an SG.... all-mahogany anyway.  It sounded fine, not muddy at all, but it is relatively dark compared to the Riff Raff.

The neck pickup was an AII Stormy Monday, which felt a bit "light" next to the BD - not enough contrast between the two pickups (IMO, of course).  Next time I'd go for a neck pickup with a little more oomph and midrange - an AIV Mule probably.

I think the Riff Raff bridge is nearly perfect in an SG, but it is bright, so I'd want something warm in the neck for contrast.  I haven't tried the RR neck, but I think it'd be too bright for my taste.   When I eventually change the pickups in my Tokai SG I'll probably go Riff Raff/Mule or maybe an AV/AIV Mule set.

[Vilches3]

I had a Black Dog (bridge) in a V, so pretty similar to an SG.... all-mahogany anyway.  It sounded fine, not muddy at all, but it is relatively dark compared to the Riff Raff.

The neck pickup was an AII Stormy Monday, which felt a bit "light" next to the BD - not enough contrast between the two pickups (IMO, of course).  Next time I'd go for a neck pickup with a little more oomph and midrange - an AIV Mule probably.

I think the Riff Raff bridge is nearly perfect in an SG, but it is bright, so I'd want something warm in the neck for contrast.  I haven't tried the RR neck, but I think it'd be too bright for my taste.   When I eventually change the pickups in my Tokai SG I'll probably go Riff Raff/Mule or maybe an AV/AIV Mule set.

I dont mind it being dark, but id want it to bite a litte, and be very clear and nail the tones mentioned or atleast get in the ballpark. its just that when I tried it, it was in an all maple bodied guitar, i forget the kind of guitar, but the bass version of it is in suicidal tendencies Institutionalized video, the weird gumby looking gibson. I dont really care about the contrast between the neck and bridge much, i never use the middle position. Thanks man- oh and im referring to the Black Dog not the Riff Raff

[Nolly]

I had a Black Dog (bridge) in a V, so pretty similar to an SG.... all-mahogany anyway.  It sounded fine, not muddy at all, but it is relatively dark compared to the Riff Raff.

The neck pickup was an AII Stormy Monday, which felt a bit "light" next to the BD - not enough contrast between the two pickups (IMO, of course).  Next time I'd go for a neck pickup with a little more oomph and midrange - an AIV Mule probably.

I think the Riff Raff bridge is nearly perfect in an SG, but it is bright, so I'd want something warm in the neck for contrast.  I haven't tried the RR neck, but I think it'd be too bright for my taste.   When I eventually change the pickups in my Tokai SG I'll probably go Riff Raff/Mule or maybe an AV/AIV Mule set.

I dont mind it being dark, but id want it to bite a litte, and be very clear and nail the tones mentioned or atleast get in the ballpark. its just that when I tried it, it was in an all maple bodied guitar, i forget the kind of guitar, but the bass version of it is in suicidal tendencies Institutionalized video, the weird gumby looking gibson. I dont really care about the contrast between the neck and bridge much, i never use the middle position. Thanks man- oh and im referring to the Black Dog not the Riff Raff

Don't worry, the Black Dog can certainly bite when needed. It's got the classic PAF-y voicing you seem to be going for, but with a very rich midrange and smooth top end. I wouldn't describe it as "dark", but then I think people are contrasting it specifically with the Riff-Raff here, which is a fair bit brighter.
And Philly, yes I imagine you would find the Riff Raff a tad bright if you want a warm sounding neck positions. It's one of the most defined neck pickups in the range, Tim uses it a lot in his Les Pauls paired up with anything up to and including a Miracle Man bridge. The AIV Mule is certainly more refined, as is the Black Dog neck.

[Vilches3]

I had a Black Dog (bridge) in a V, so pretty similar to an SG.... all-mahogany anyway.  It sounded fine, not muddy at all, but it is relatively dark compared to the Riff Raff.

The neck pickup was an AII Stormy Monday, which felt a bit "light" next to the BD - not enough contrast between the two pickups (IMO, of course).  Next time I'd go for a neck pickup with a little more oomph and midrange - an AIV Mule probably.

I think the Riff Raff bridge is nearly perfect in an SG, but it is bright, so I'd want something warm in the neck for contrast.  I haven't tried the RR neck, but I think it'd be too bright for my taste.   When I eventually change the pickups in my Tokai SG I'll probably go Riff Raff/Mule or maybe an AV/AIV Mule set.

I dont mind it being dark, but id want it to bite a litte, and be very clear and nail the tones mentioned or atleast get in the ballpark. its just that when I tried it, it was in an all maple bodied guitar, i forget the kind of guitar, but the bass version of it is in suicidal tendencies Institutionalized video, the weird gumby looking gibson. I dont really care about the contrast between the neck and bridge much, i never use the middle position. Thanks man- oh and im referring to the Black Dog not the Riff Raff

Don't worry, the Black Dog can certainly bite when needed. It's got the classic PAF-y voicing you seem to be going for, but with a very rich midrange and smooth top end. I wouldn't describe it as "dark", but then I think people are contrasting it specifically with the Riff-Raff here, which is a fair bit brighter.
And Philly, yes I imagine you would find the Riff Raff a tad bright if you want a warm sounding neck positions. It's one of the most defined neck pickups in the range, Tim uses it a lot in his Les Pauls paired up with anything up to and including a Miracle Man bridge. The AIV Mule is certainly more refined, as is the Black Dog neck.

it would do okay in an SG though? they tend to be picky with pickups- i think it was mentioned in the forum that with SG's you have to go very low or very high output-  How would a VHII or Abraxas or Crawler do?- Riff Raffs seem great, but im looking for something more muscular sounding, not TOO much edge but some edge....when I think riff raff, I think vintage voicing and tones of edge

[Telerocker]

Sidestep: have a look at the Crawlers. Very versatile, quite some output. Very balanced, fat and a not too bright topend, but definitely not dark or dull. I have a Crawler in a swampashstrat, but it does well in mahoganyguitars too. Sonically it is in the hot-PAF-league.

[ericsabbath]

I wouldn't put a crawler in a SG
Tim warned me about putting medium output pickups in SGs
I tried the holy diver and it was awful compared to the same pup in two different les pauls (one was a quite dark sounding imbuya top les paul and it still sounded glorious)

did you e-mail Tim?