Alternative Vote - Long Overdue Reform, Or A Waste Of Time..?

[MrBump]

... you have democracy in Scotland..?

Who'd have thought?

[nfe]

First in post-classical Europe to challenge the divine right of kings and introduce democracy (well, a form of democracy) to government, us Scots.

I say "us", I wasn't there, right enough.

[MrBump]

First in post-classical Europe to challenge the divine right of kings and introduce democracy (well, a form of democracy) to government, us Scots.

I say "us", I wasn't there, right enough.

 :D

[JDC]

my understanding of FPTP is we vote for a local MP to get a seat in parliament, so for a party to win you need more seats than all the other parties put together in order to pass laws

so with AV, are we still voting for the local MP to have a seat or for the party as a whole?

[nfe]

You number the candidates for your constituencies seat from most preferred to least.

Then when they're counted up, a candidate needs 50% of votes. So you look at all the 1st preferences, if no one has 50%, you drop the person in last place, and assign their 2nd preferences around the other candidates, if no one has 50% yet, you repeat the process and so on and so on until someone has 50%.

In use, it will make very little difference other than getting the Lib Dems a few extra MPs in English swing-seats.

[Elliot]

First in post-classical Europe to challenge the divine right of kings and introduce democracy (well, a form of democracy) to government, us Scots.

I say "us", I wasn't there, right enough.

Sorry when was this? 

[nfe]

First in post-classical Europe to challenge the divine right of kings and introduce democracy (well, a form of democracy) to government, us Scots.

I say "us", I wasn't there, right enough.

Sorry when was this? 

6th April 1320.

[nfe]

Anyone see this top flight idiocy?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3530378/The-AV-winner-is-one-of-the-losers.html

Let's ignore the fact that almost without question no general election in Britain in the last 30 years would have had a different result under AV. Let's ignore that the No Vote Lobby's favourite example of Australia, who's FPTP system turned out coalitions more often that their AV system has (and that's assuming everyone thinks coalitions are bad anyway). Let's ignore anything going.

Let's make a mock up of a racing championship which doesn't make sense to try and convince the red top readership to be scared!

Good lord.

I imagine David Cameron will be making a stand for FPTP and stepping down from his post as leader of the Tories, won by AV, and handing the reigns over to David Davis who won more first preference votes.

[Dmoney]

Jesus, NFE!


My friends today said they are going to vote for AV just because they don't want to do what Cameron tells them.
One even argued that Clegg is against AV...
It didn't inspire confidence in me.

I'm only really interested in what happens to the lib dems in scotland. I hope they get smashed.

[nfe]

It's the best thing ever, that Sun article. AV isn't complicated, but the manage to make it so spectacularly so, and apply it to things that make absolutely no sense and no wonder grannies and apathetic voters think it's bad.

And Clegg IS against AV, strictly speaking. But he'll take any nod towards electoral reform going. As would I. A No vote means it wont be on the table for decades again.

The Lib Dems will get annihilated In Scotland. Tavish Scott will keep his seat, a couple others too, but I think there'll be a significant cull.Mostly to the SNP I think. A couple to Labour.

[Dmoney]

Oh I know he wanted PR, but he's on the Yes campaign for AV. I was arguing with someone who thought Clegg and Cameron agreed to both support the No vote. which isn't the case. Unless I'm wrong and now I look very stupid!!

[nfe]

No he certainly didn't do that. Would have been a laugh mind. He's alienated pretty much his entire grassroots support, might as well have made a clean sweep of it.

[MrBump]

The Sun article is trash, but it's to be expected.

Usain Bolt is first to cross the line but under AV Richard Thompson (No4) would win

Nope.  I'm pretty sure that Bolt would still have won the 100 meters under AV...

One of the thing that gets me about the "debate" (and there are many) is this assertion that AV is too complex for the masses.

WTF???

These voters, in order to vote, should have an understanding of basic political concepts, of the arguments put forward by each party, the basic principles of their manifestos.

I'm pretty sure that the masses can work out "1,2,3,4...."

 :?

[nfe]

I hope everyone's been to vote, even if the referendum was the only bit of paper for you to put a cross on today.

I suspect wide reports of tiny turnouts over much of England.

[Philly Q]

I hope everyone's been to vote, even if the referendum was the only bit of paper for you to put a cross on today.

I suspect wide reports of tiny turnouts over much of England.

Yep, in London we only had the referendum to vote for.  It did seem unusually quiet at the polling station.