SG : Warpig or nailbomb or ? [was : Riff Raff didn't work for me - now what]

[BigB]

I've been pretty happy with my BKPs so far (Crawlers, BGF50/52, Slowhands etc), and I following Tim's advices - as usual - I bought a Mule neck and RiffRaff bridge for my SG.

The Mule is the most wonderful neck humbucker I ever played, the clean tones are just gorgeous, but the RiffRaff just doesn't work for me. Nothing wrong with pup itself, it has all the traditional BKP qualities and really shines for classic rock tones, but I was looking for something with more warmth and low-mid growl. FWIW, the JB it replaced was close to what I'd like, just missing a bit more bite and the definition and articulation of my Crawlers.

So, the RR will ship back, and I'm wondering what I should get instead ? Tim said Nailbomb, but I'm a bit worried since it seems it's very picky about which guitar it goes into (in this case, a rather dark SG). I'm also considering Holydivers but then I'm not sure they'd have enough bite for this guitar...

So what you guys would say ?

[Telerocker]

Maybe look at VHII's or, if you like p90's, MQ's. Or a Mule in the bridge.

[BigB]

I do like P90, but not what I'm looking for here - and I really don't think the VHII would fit my needs. FWIW, I'm now considering going for the other extreme - Warpig.

[Loomer]

pig 90

[Alex]

No Nailbomb for sure!
Warpig - don't know, might be great for Iommi tones.
I've got the Black Dog and while it is still very low output IMO it growls a lot deeper with more midrange and bass.

[BigB]

No Nailbomb for sure!
Warpig - don't know, might be great for Iommi tones.
I've got the Black Dog and while it is still very low output IMO it growls a lot deeper with more midrange and bass.

Well, Nailbombs are actually Tim's next recommandation. I admit I'm a bit worried here since these pups seems to be really picky about what particular guitar they're in, whatever the wood, construction and whatnot. There are a couple of posts here from guys really loving the NB in their SG, but it's a bit of a "coin flipping" (is that's the correct term ?) game :-/

The warpig is probably a safer bet but well, I'm not into br00talz detuned metal stuff neither - rather some kind of "heavy rock" with a mix of classic / hard rock, old school metal, punk-rock, grunge and indy influences - and most of the warpig clips are metal riffing on metal guitars. I'm also afraid the Warpig might be a bit too compressed for my tastes.

Decisions, decisions... :-/ 

[darkbluemurder]

The Mule is the most wonderful neck humbucker I ever played, the clean tones are just gorgeous, but the RiffRaff just doesn't work for me. Nothing wrong with pup itself, it has all the traditional BKP qualities and really shines for classic rock tones, but I was looking for something with more warmth and low-mid growl.

That sounds like a Black Dog to me.

Cheers Stephan

[BigB]

The Mule is the most wonderful neck humbucker I ever played, the clean tones are just gorgeous, but the RiffRaff just doesn't work for me. Nothing wrong with pup itself, it has all the traditional BKP qualities and really shines for classic rock tones, but I was looking for something with more warmth and low-mid growl.

That sounds like a Black Dog to me.

Cheers Stephan

Yeps, been thinking about this too, but OTHO I'm not that much after "pure" vintage tones here. From my (limited) experience, I'd say I'm looking for something that's more "modern" but with still a vintage feel. The Crawlers bridge is possibly the best reference I can come up with, but I'm pretty sure Crawlers wouldn't work in this guitar. FWIW, I put the (80's) JB back and well, in this guitar, it's really quite close wrt/ voicing - just lacking the fundamentals qualities of BKPs (liveliness, definition, note separation etc...).

[Slartibartfarst42]

The sounds you describe and your reference to a JB all suggest Holydiver to me but when I think of it, I can't recall posts from anyone with a HD in an SG so I'm guessing it's not a good match. Perhaps someone else could clarify this. If it's a dark and full sounding SG the Nailbomb might work well and a cover will help to round out the tone for you, though I wouldn't automatically compare it to a JB. For no logical reason at all, how about an Emerald? Based on the fact that you like both the Mule and Crawler, how about an Abraxas as I've heard that described as between both of those.

[BigB]

The sounds you describe and your reference to a JB all suggest Holydiver to me but when I think of it, I can't recall posts from anyone with a HD in an SG

Hunter once had a HD in his SGn and did post about it ,and his conclusion was that;

so I'm guessing it's not a good match.

Possibly not, indeed. OTHO, some people reported that NB+SG didn't work, some others really liked it... Looks like it really depends on the exact guitar, player, amp, and whatnot :-/

Perhaps someone else could clarify this. If it's a dark and full sounding SG the Nailbomb might work well and a cover will help to round out the tone for you, though I wouldn't automatically compare it to a JB.

Well, Tim suggested the NB for the same reasons.

For no logical reason at all, how about an Emerald? Based on the fact that you like both the Mule and Crawler, how about an Abraxas as I've heard that described as between both of those.

AFAICT, Crawlers are darker - and way hotter - than Abraxas. wrt/ the Mule, I only have (very recent) experience with the neck, and it's mainly it's clean to bluesy crunch tones that I fell in love with - not that it doesnt sounds good overdriven but I almost never use neck pups for higher gain (and almost never use the bridge for clean tones FWIW).

One of the things I like with the Crawler bridge is how it manage to be at once fat and warm _yet_ stays tight and sharp under hi gain, and - with my limited experience of pickups - I'm not sure this is somethong one can get with lower output pups (or at least I couldn't get that kind of tone out of the RR with my current rig and abilities).

[Telerocker]

I think Crawlers excel in non-mahohany bolt-on-guitars, but I'm skeptical using them in an SG. A lot of people on the forum stated that an SG is picky when it comes to pickups: often mediumoutput-hb's don't give the best results. I personally would go for an fat but open sounding hb like the Black Dog. Or go extreme with an AV Nailbomb, but as you said, they work in some guitars and don't in others. I have doubts about the Warpig in an SG, since it has huge amounts of bass and mids. Taming those in an all mahogany guitar could be difficult.

[Vilches3]

hmm. If its too risky to put a Nailbomb or a Diver. And the Black Dog may be a little risky. Why not a rebel yell? The amp can probably be dialed to get the warmth, and its supposed to be voiced similar to (and better than) a JB (older JB) and you mentioned the JB got you close to the tone you like. That and I think I saw a few people on the forums who liked Rebel Yells in their SG's though I could be wrong. I imagine they have the proper cut to remain clear in a picky guitar like an SG. The cold sweat gets even further from the warmth, but produces a great tone and supposedly sounds good in an SG as well. SG's can be a bit puzzling to go pickup shopping for. Good luck!

I guess I'd say look at the Black Dog or Rebel Yell maybe

[BigB]

I think Crawlers excel in non-mahohany bolt-on-guitars, but I'm skeptical using them in an SG.

From my own experience I'd say they should work fine on any bright guitar - they are perfect on my going-thru maple neck / maple sides Vox Custom - but I wouldn't even bother trying them on this rather dark SG.

I have doubts about the Warpig in an SG, since it has huge amounts of bass and mids. Taming those in an all mahogany guitar could be difficult.

There are quite a few reports of Warpig in SGs, and FWIW the name itself suggests SG. Also, as Tim mentioned, WP should have enough output to "take over" the guitar. Now almost all the clips I found were about metal guitars and metal riffing and br00tal stuff... I'm mostly worried that it would be over the top with compression and br00tality for my liking.

Why not a rebel yell? The amp can probably be dialed to get the warmth

I thought about it too, but I'm afraid it would be too much on the bright side, which was part of the problem (for me) with the RR. I'm still browing the players section for clips but didn't found one of the RY on a SG so far...

wrt/ CS, well, I have to say I have a very strong a priori against ceramic pickups :-/

SG's can be a bit puzzling to go pickup shopping for. Good luck!

Indeed - and thanks ;)

[BigB]

I was looking for something with more warmth and low-mid growl. FWIW, the JB it replaced was close to what I'd like, just missing a bit more bite and the definition

BTW, don't know if it's of any importance but did I mentionned this was a pretty old (early 80s or so) JB tagged "JBJ" ? I found a few threads here and there about "original" vs "recent" JB versions so I thought it might make some difference (never tried a JB myself before I got this guitar so I can't tell).

[Slartibartfarst42]

Oddly enough, when I asked about changing my Nailbomb for a Holydiver, the first thing Ben said was that the HD was even higher output than the NB. The aggressive tag also intrigues me in relation to the Holydiver. The Nailbomb was very aggressive but clips of the Holydiver and references to Jake E Lee, Doug Aldrich etc. suggest something far smoother even if it does retain an aggressive edge to it. I guess I'll know more by the end of the week  :D