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Author Topic: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people  (Read 2444 times)

richardjmorgan

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Hello all, would quite like to pick your brains on the subject of one of my guitars, if you feel inclined to have your brains picked. Please feel free to ignore all this if you're in any sort of hurry, as I suspect I'm about to start rambling a bit.

Here's the deal: because I'm a jammy sod, when I was 18  my uncle and aunt bought me a guitar – a 52 Reissue Tele – which was picked on the basis that I liked how the neck felt, before I really knew anything at all about guitars with regard to pickups, suitability for different types of music and so on, and was essentially just bashing away playing Ramones songs and things (yes, a 52RI Tele was wasted on 18-year-old me, but 18-year-old me knew so little about guitars he didn't even realise this).

A few years later, shortly after getting my first job out of uni and armed with a dangerous combination of youthful exuberance and a credit card with a larger limit than I should have been trusted with, I bought a Gibson V. This then became my main band/gigging guitar, as what I've mostly been playing has been taking an increasing turn for the more metal end of the musical spectrum (although perhaps, given that I was using a V, this choice of musical direction is something of a chicken and egg situation). Also, I was still fairly wary of taking my "special, birthday" guitar out and about anywhere it could potential suffer any mishaps; strangely, I never had the same issue with the V.

Anyway, in the intervening years, I came to know a significant amount more about guitars, and recently, precipitated by a few sessions of mucking about playing a few Johnny Cash songs and suchlike, decided that as I've got this nice Telecaster, I really ought to be using it more. Since, I've been using it for more or less all my non-metal-band musical activities, which mainly consists of playing a bit of pop-punk, a variety of 70s and 80 poppy rock covers, and a few horrifically inept stabs at country. However, by this point, I had a much clearer idea of what I liked/wanted out of a guitar, and have found the Tele a bit wanting in some respects, despite its (for me) hitherto unappreciated versatility. So after all that preamble, this is where I identify what I'm not totally happy with and open myself up for advice as to how to address those issues.

The main problem I have is that, compared to the V, everything about playing it feels like much harder work. I have to work my fingers to fret notes a lot harder and I have to hit the strings much harder (to the point of breaking them much more frequently that the V) in order to achieve anything approaching a consistent tone. I appreciate that some of this will be down to lower output pickups and running them into something less monstrous than a 5150 on the Lead channel, but at the moment it's a bit too much like hard work, so I'm looking for ways to redress this to some extent, as I feel like I'm not doing a nice guitar enough justice and want to get it in a state where I'm more inclined to use it. Here's things I've identified that I thought changing (one or more  of) might help:

1. The frets on the 52 are tiny. Would getting it refretted with something bigger avoid left hand finger-knack (particularly, making hammering on/pulling off easier) and get the notes coming out of the guitar a bit more consistent?

2. Alternatively (or even additionally), would a higher output from the guitar help with this? Either by putting in a hotter pickup, or installing the EMG PA-2 that came with the set I've put in my V but didn't install as I thought that was just overdoing it?

3. Stop being such a crummy guitar player and just practice more with the Tele until I get more used to how to play it well enough to do it justice – perhaps the V/EMG/5150 combination has just made me a lazy guitarist who would benefit from getting out of his comfort zone?

4. Admit that I didn't know what I was doing when I originally picked this guitar, that I'm not cut out for twangyness/longer scale length/single coil pickups, and sell it, putting the money towards something more in keeping with the tastes I've developed over the last decade or so? Obviously I'm slightly reluctant to do this as it was a (pretty amazing) gift from a family member, but if there's no way I'm going to be able to do it justice, maybe I'm just barking up the wrong guitar tree.

Any advice from all you guys would be greatly appreciated; I don't post much on here, but I read a lot of what you all have to say and it seems like as good a place to ask as any. Cheers.

R.

AndyR

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2011, 08:34:20 AM »
That's a well put together post :D

Sounds like you know the answers but aren't sure which way to jump.

I can see the logic of 4, moving it on (if you can square away the sentimental side, obviously). But from the other stuff you've written, I think you would eventually regret shifting it - it sounds like you've got reasonably wide tastes in music, and I think that further down the line you will need a guitar that does the job that this one does. If it's a good 52RI, they are highly regarded as "the guitar" if you're after that particular type of tele, and there are countless "wish I'd never sold mine" posts on places like the TDPRI forum.

Teles are funny things. It took me years to really "get" them. They never seemed to sound as good as I thought they should. And they can seem, like you say, somewhat harder to play. And I go through moods regarding them - I've got three nice-ish ones, and I haven't touched them in months because I'm in a "bass, strats, and SG" mood. But I know that when I get one of them out it's going to be great again.

I'm kind of leaning towards 3 is what you should do - play the thing. It will eventually really expand your musical horizons and playing skills. When you finally get a tele playing how you were expecting it to sound you find that your playing on other guitars has REALLY improved.

But, I think you need to change your attitude towards it. Don't ever look at a guitar as something you've got to do justice to :lol: - no matter how special or expensive the world says it is, it's a plank of wood with some metal and plastic on it. It's a tool to serve its owner, and you're the owner... whatever you do with it justifies it.

I think a lot of us fall into this "my guitar is better than me" thinking at some time or another (er... I'm naturally arrogant enough, though, that I only really had the problem for about 2 months nearly forty years ago :lol:). Master this and you'll progress faster towards finding out what you and a tele can do.

Regarding 2 - output from the guitar - I've found this can seem a big problem if you've got used to humbuckers/distortion/etc. I'm on strats with singles mainly, I only dip my toe into humbuckers occasionally, but I still grew up making more distorted strat tones, and moving to a tele gave me some of the same problems. There's a few of things I'd suggest:

a) A tele is very responsive to touch (well, any guitar is, but the tele seems to exhibit it more at first) - so it feels like getting a "consistent tone" is easier said than done. Instead of regarding it as a hurdle to get over, embrace the "inconsistencies" - experiment with using them in your playing. I think this is one of the reasons diehard tele players love them so much, it's very easy to make the thing sound different depending on how you hit it.

b) Use the controls. It all depends how your amp is running, but in general, turning the tone down on the guitar tends to "fatten" a single coil, especially a tele bridge pickup. For raunchy chords, I have my tone on about 5 or 6. Another trick some people use is having the tone open, but use the volume as a "tone" control.  I've experimented with it, and yes it does work, but it depends on your amp and the music you're trying to play at the time.

c) If you haven't done it already - mess with the pickup heights. Any pickups, cheap or expensive (and I believe the ones on a 52RI are pretty good) change their character with height adjustments. And again, on a tele, because of its apparent sensitivity, little changes can turn it into a different instrument. If you don't know about this yet, it's vaguely "closer to the strings equals more and thicker output, further from the strings is less and brighter output". Some people want the first, some people the second, neither is "right". Also, a "modern" post-early-60s tele wiring (the switch gives you bridge, bridge+neck in parallel, neck, the tone is a master tone working on all positions) can give this amazing middle position tone, but it takes quite a bit of fiddling with the respective heights and angles of the bridge and neck pickup to get it just where you like it.

d) Which leads me to the last bit on output - I believe the 52RI comes with 50s wiring installed and a kit to convert it to 60s. I can't remember what 50s is exactly, but I understand that it can make some of the positions unusable to many players, and I don't think you get that magical (to me) bridge+neck. How is yours wired at the moment? - that might be worth considering. Another thing, which might help your situation actually, is consider installing a four-way switch instead. This is "modern" with the switch giving you an extra bridge+neck in series. This fourth position gives you something akin to a humbucker - it just adds the two pickups together. I suspect that you might quite like this at the moment. All my teles have it, I don't use it much because I'm a home player/recorder now and I have other guitars to do the job, but if I was playing live I would definitely use it.

Finally - the frets. I'm having vaguely the same problem myself. I can actually cope with big frets, little frets, different fret board radius, scale length, etc... But I have one guitar where the little frets are worrying me. It's one of my strats, a Crafted In Japan "62", it was my favourite strat but I've got two Roadworns now. With the slightly thicker and much taller frets these guys just sing in my hands. When I switch back to the CIJ, I have a bit of a struggle to "feel good" on it until I've been playing for half an hour or so.

With my teles, two have tiddly vintage frets and one, a Baja, I took to Felineguitars and had Jonathan put HUGE frets on it. I got it done because I was wearing out the stock frets very quickly, it felt like replacing was a good idea financially (rather than regular dresses and then a refret in a couple of years). The stock ones on a Baja are not tiny by any means, but when Jonathan offered me various fretwires for feel, I went for the biggest. That one plays like a dream for me now - whenever I put it on, regardless of what I was playing immediately before, I just play it, no time needed to adjust.

You can get used to the frets on the 52RI, it is just practice, but it will affect how you play. It might be you don't want your technique to go in that direction? It's up to you. Personally I'd rather embrace the differences and learn to play whatever I've got. But there does come a time when you don't play one of your favourites because it takes half an hour to "get into it" - that's what I've got on my CIJ strat, and I think I'm going to get it refretted. I won't go for the huge ones this time, I'll probably match what I've got on my RW strats - that's well comfy for me on a 7.25" radius fretboard.

I suspect you could well do with bigger frets, it could easily transform your impression of how well you play it. But it's a tough decision to make if the others aren't wearing. It's not cheap, and on a finished maple fretboard, it's quite likely to mean refinishing the board, so even more expensive (it depends how it looks when the old frets have been extracted - possibly "not good" if the neck was lacquered after the frets were put on, which is a standard construction method).


I hope that helps a bit. I went to the trouble partly cos I'm waiting for the gas-man :lol:, but mainly because it sounds like you love this guitar and think you're not worthy of her. I also think you're going to want what a tele does for you eventually, and a 52RI is a monster of a tele if it's a good one.

Gas man's here! woohoo :D

Good luck...
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richardjmorgan

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2011, 10:16:36 AM »
AndyR, thanks so much for taking the time on that beast of a post – it was all very helpful and has certainly given me a lot to chew over. Planning on paying a visit to Feline tomorrow morning actually, as a mate of mine has just dismantled his bass and needs some help, so was thinking of taking my Tele along for a spot of discussion with Jonathan and having all your suggestions in mind beforehand will no doubt be hugely useful.

To answer a couple of your points:

  • Yes, it's still on the old 50s wiring – I've been meaning to try out the 60s wiring kit but thought I may as well do a bit of research beforehand. I've also been putting it off a bit as another mod I've been considering is replacing the 3-way blade switch with a Gibson-style toggle; blade switches are something I've put my foot down and decided I am NEVER going to get on with. So in response to your 4-way suggestion, is there a way of doing this and incorporating a toggle instead of blade switch?
  • As for the pickup height thing, that hadn't even really occurred to me. Will definitely give it a go over the bank hol. weekend and see how that works out. May even get the soldering iron out and have a crack at installing the 60s wiring too, although I predict that could result in another trip to se Jonathan.
  • Also, your mention of the responsiveness of Tele has put me at ease slightly that  I'm not imagining things and also that I'm not just playing it completely dreadfully. So thanks for that in particular!

All in all, quite glad that I haven't just received a deluge of suggestions that I go with option 4, and am starting to perhaps lean towards a refret, but it sounds like there's a fair few other things I could try out fairly cheaply/easily before taking that plunge.

Cheers again for all that – really was a massive help! :)

Andrew W

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2011, 10:25:52 AM »
I think my response comes in two parts:

Part 1 - Stick with what you have and see if you learn to love it. Teles are odd critters and can take a little getting used to. Jeffrey Beck always reckoned that a Tele was an utterly unforgiving guitar but ultimately much more rewarding because of this. I think I'd tend to agree with that. If time doesn't make the heart grow fonder then...

Part 2 - Perhaps get some bigger frets installed and think about putting a BKP Piledriver in the bridge position. I have two Teles, one very classic blackguard and one early '90s Mexican Fender which I put a Piledriver in. That one sounds very compressed and rock oriented but has some range to it, more than any active pick up I've played, though I've not played many. I think that would get you to more metal tones without losing all the Teleness plus, if you eventually developed a taste for Danny Gatton, you could always swap the Piledriver for something twangier, no damage done to the guitar.

BigB

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2011, 12:29:27 PM »
Well, most has already been said I think...

wrt/ small frets, they are to me part of the tone and feel of a Telly, and while I'm mostly a 'bucker / gibbies large frets user I wouldn't personnaly replace them. FWIW, the whole point of having a "different" guitar (different from your main one, that is) is, well, to have something different, so better to embrace it than to fight against it.
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AndyR

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2011, 01:04:06 PM »
No problem, was a pleasure :D

On the blade vs toggle - er... not sure... ask Jonathan!!

One thing I would say though, if there is a chance you're going to shift it, consider resale value before you go too far.

As far as I can make out, people who want 52RIs want 52RIs, not modified 52RIs.

Changing the 50s to 60s is what most of them would do themselves, so OK (keep the other bits).

Lots of people seem to have trouble with the skinny frets, so a classy refret might be OK as well - might take longer to find a buyer though?

Installing different pickups is reversible, so OK (keep the old ones). Go for the 60s wiring and adjusting the heights over a few weeks though - you might find you have a different guitar in your hands than you thought.

Installing a blade 4-way, again, should be reversible.

But someone who wants to buy a 52RI is not going to want one with toggle switch(es) on :lol:. So make sure that whatever solution you come up with in that department is reversible as well!

The purist in me wants you to fall in love with the beast as it is (with a possible refret and possibly chunkier tele pickups), but I'm a firm believer in "it's your guitar"...



NEway - where's Roo when you need him? I felt sure he'd have expressed an opinion by now, seeing as you asked so politely! :lol:


EDIT: I just had a thought - we are talking about a 52 AVRI (Amercian Vintage), aren't we? I just assumed we were :lol: If it's not the AVRI, the talk of resale value might not be so important.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 01:07:53 PM by AndyR »
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richardjmorgan

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2011, 01:18:37 PM »
Yeah, it's the AVRI. And don't panic – I'm not about to go hacking into the body to put toggle switches in Les-Pauly places, just get a new control plate and drill a round hole in it instead of the slot. So if necessary, I'll be able to return it to totally stock condition – other than if I decide to go for a refret, obviously.

Jazz Rock

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2011, 01:11:36 AM »
I would wholeheartedly second AndyR's response.

I myself bought a Tele in January 2009 and am only now really getting a grip with it.

I got one because more and more of the guitar sounds I dig were produced by telecasters (like Frank Black, Graham Coxon, Bruce Springsteen and more...). Trying a few in shops, I also liked the feel of then neck and the way they sound unplugged. Plus the fact that I had heard players say that a Tele is an unforgiving guitar, it won't let through any sloppy playing unnoticed. So it seemed like a good challenge to improve my playing skills.

The problem I had was it is indeed harder to play than a LP with shorter scale - expacially when you have relatively small fingers span - and plugged in, I couldn't get the sound I was looking for. I basically found myself playing the tele for shorter and shorter period of time, knowing that I was missing a trick and that I didn't manage to get what I could out of it.

First thing I did, was replacing the pups with BKPs and installing a 4-way switch. Playing with the relative height between the neck and bridge pickup, I managed to find good series and parallel sound. Finding your sweet spot will require a bit of experimenting. That has made a hell of difference but somehow I wasn't entirely happy with. Still not quite the sound I wanted.

Than, fairly recently I realised that the way I was setting up my amp was part of the problem, raising the gain more than the volume, which somehow is compressing the sound a little and works quite well with my LPs. By reversing the trend, more volume, less gain, I got to experience more the variation in responses that has been mentioned above, A wee break through.

And even more recently, I have finally cracked it: to get THE Tele sound for me, I needed an american sounding amp, which is why I will fairly soon get an Egnater Tweaker, which allows you to change the tonal characteristic of the amp at the flick of a switch from American (Fender), to British (Marshall), to Vox-like.

So, at the end of the trip it won't have come cheap but I believe I am founding myself on the brink of a new era where the Tele could very well become my number one... It has been a very rewarding experience because I do feel the Tele is opening my playing horizons.

So my advice is make it work for you, eventhough you and me have not approached it from the same angle. For me it was mainly a question of sound, I managed to get used to the different feel. Maybe in your case, you will need to adapt the feel of the frets to fianlly start to appreciate it.
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tomjackson

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2011, 11:17:24 AM »

Just get a cheap but modern neck off ebay or axesrus with big frets and a flatter radius.  Save the original neck for if you want to sell it.

I love teles but the 52RI's I have played have all been put straight back down becuase of the sticky feeling necks, tiny frets and vinage radius. 

In fact just sell it and get a Baja, the 52 will always play like an old dog.....

Ian Price

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2011, 05:53:31 PM »
I can vouch for the Baja although I did find the neck a little too sticky. To rectify this I got happy with some fine grade sandpaper and sanded the finish off the back. It is now super smooth and slick with much less friction (it also looks better in, my opinion) and much much nicer to play.
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gordiji

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2011, 08:09:38 PM »
Try using it with a compressor in front of your amp.this will help you appreciate the gorgeous clean tones on single string
work without it sounding weedy.not necessary with distortion as the compression is already there.
Appreciate it's difference from your v.i like different size necks, frets, humbuckers , singles.they make you do things differently and variety is a good thing even if you have one major direction or style.

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2011, 01:07:03 PM »
It took me ages to get my Tele to a place I was happy with AND also learn how to get the best from it.  I bought mine in 2005 (ish) and really never gave it much use outside of home noodling until the back end of 2009.

I'm a Gibson guy, no question (Les Pauls all the way) and understand the issue you're having with needing to dig in when playing the Tele.  However, for me this isn't a problem - I love guitars where you have to fight them a bit, it really impacts on your playing style and aggression when you have to get physical and wring the notes out of the guitar. 

Those 'nocaster' pickups in the '52 RIs are really nice, but if you're playing fairly heavy stuff, you'd be better off with something hotter.  The Piledriver has been suggested above and I think thats a fantastic suggestion which will get the Tele closer in feel to your Gibson, while still having some Tele 'tonality' to it.

I'd leave off on the refret and also any other non-reversible mods.


Andrew W

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2011, 02:22:21 PM »
To give you some idea of what a Piledriver did to one of my Teles, this is a short demo I recorded just after finishing the mod:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtOjBj1Nz3M

Telerocker

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2011, 12:17:18 AM »
To give you some idea of what a Piledriver did to one of my Teles, this is a short demo I recorded just after finishing the mod:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtOjBj1Nz3M

Listen to the BG50 10k-bridge too.
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HTH AMPS

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Re: My Telecaster – canvassing opinion from you smart guitar people
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2011, 11:19:19 PM »
To give you some idea of what a Piledriver did to one of my Teles, this is a short demo I recorded just after finishing the mod:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtOjBj1Nz3M

oooh!!!, I'm loving that tone - very ZZ Top.  I think I've been convinced to try a Piledriver - could imagine gigging that, seriously meaty tone.