JJ KT77 vs E34L (not EL34) Discuss!

[mbchepburn]

I'm basically torn between which of these 2 tubes from Euro Tubes to get for my Bugera 333 212 Combo. I've got a Warmoth Strat style guitar with ebony fingerboard and calibrated nailbomb humbuckers. They style of music will be virtuoso (not that I am) style guitar. Kind of like Satriani. I'm not after his tone, just a tone that is capeable of delivering slow heartfelt solos with bagfulls of tone, as well as being able to play beautiful clean tones. I also what it to be capable of playing prog style chords - kind of like Dream Theater -  and also capable of cranking up to pull of sweeps and shred solos etc. I'm a picky customer but what can I say?  :shock: :P

[Dirty Dog]

Gold pins are waste of money imho as it is only a plating and you will not hear an audible difference. Save yourself a few quid and buy the standard (pins) version.

[mbchepburn]

I see your point and I've now changed the post's title. I've already got 6l6 extra gain in my Bugera so I'm after something else more versatile for my other Bugera. I'm leaning more to the E34L though. Opinions would be nice though :)

[HTH AMPS]

for the style of music you describe I wouldn't change to EL34s or KT77s - the 6L6s you use currently are better for those tones/styles.

you might look at some 'nicer' (subjectively) 6L6s or 12AX7s - imo you will get more mileage by investing in some nice NOS 12AX7s.  what preamp valves are in there now? (JJ, EH ????)

[JacksonRR]

TAD 6L6s are really great for new tubes. I had a set of short bottles that I sold with my 333XL head. They are brighter and more defined all around than the JJs. I find that the JJs can really shine in a Fender, but maybe that's just me. HTH is spot on with the better 12Ax7s and especially so if you aren't really running that power section real hard. I like to find NOS GEs. They don't cost nearly as much as Brimars, Bugle Boys etc, and sound really nice. Maybe test the waters cheaply and just replace V1 and V2?

[HTH AMPS]

GE 12AX7s are really nice - your dream Fender clean tone is what these are great at with a smooth and relaxed midrange.

RCA 12AX7s are awesome too, but are more midrangey - better in Tweed amps or for overdrive tones.  I love these.

stay away from Sylvania 12AX7s - all the ones I have are REAL bright and glassy.

if you want to try some old 12AX7s on the cheap, just try pot luck and go for cheap auctions with brands that are lesser known - they'll have likely been make by one of the big names anyway.

[JacksonRR]

GE 12AX7s are really nice - your dream Fender clean tone is what these are great at with a smooth and relaxed midrange.

Then why am I using them in a 5150?  :lol:

if you want to try some old 12AX7s on the cheap, just try pot luck and go for cheap auctions with brands that are lesser known - they'll have likely been make by one of the big names anyway.

Absolutely correct. I've even found really nice sounding valves by picking up old and sometimes broken radios for super cheap at rummage sales or Craigslist. Yoink the valves and whatever else I think is worth something and chuck the rest. Grabbed a good handful of Telefunkens that way.  :D

[HTH AMPS]

GE 12AX7s are really nice - your dream Fender clean tone is what these are great at with a smooth and relaxed midrange.

Then why am I using them in a 5150?  :lol:

if you want to try some old 12AX7s on the cheap, just try pot luck and go for cheap auctions with brands that are lesser known - they'll have likely been make by one of the big names anyway.

Absolutely correct. I've even found really nice sounding valves by picking up old and sometimes broken radios for super cheap at rummage sales or Craigslist. Yoink the valves and whatever else I think is worth something and chuck the rest. Grabbed a good handful of Telefunkens that way.  :D

maybe you're insane  :lol:

[HTH AMPS]

fwiw, I first used JAN-spec GE 12AX7s in a Fender Tonemaster and they transformed that amp from great to OMG!!!  :band5:

[JacksonRR]

maybe you're insane  :lol:

I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.  :lol:

All this had me go on quick hunt. Meeting him this weekend to go cherry picking through them. Sort of thinking maybe I'll just wrap myself in tape, sticky side out, roll in them and then run out with as many as will adhere to me. Teach him a lesson about having strangers over to your house.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/clt/2437481044.html

[mbchepburn]

for the style of music you describe I wouldn't change to EL34s or KT77s - the 6L6s you use currently are better for those tones/styles.

you might look at some 'nicer' (subjectively) 6L6s or 12AX7s - imo you will get more mileage by investing in some nice NOS 12AX7s.  what preamp valves are in there now? (JJ, EH ????)

6L6s or 12AX7s? You do relise that one is a power amp tube and the other is a preamp tube lol. So I would say one "or" the other. And tbh 6L6s are just to tight for me in this kind of amp. I already have a bugera amp loaded with 6L6s  so I want my other amp to have a different feel to it. Thanks for the suggestion anyways.

[mbchepburn]

Got this reply from Doug from Dougstubes.com. So think I'm going to go with this.


(Metal Sounding Amp) For amp #1, go with the RUBY 6L6GCMSTR's and for the 4 x 12AX7's, a Ruby AC5 HG+ in V1, Penta Labs 12AX7's in V2 and V3 then the Sovtek LPS in V4.
 
(For the amp I described above) For amp #2, I would rather see the Ruby EL34BHT's and in V1 a Tung-Sol, V2, a Ruby(JJ) CZ HG, Sovtek WC in V3 then a JJ ECC803 in V4.

[JacksonRR]

FYI, Ruby's are rebranded Shuguangs(Chinese). Doug's Tubes is a great store with good customer service and prices.

I'm pretty sure HTH doesn't have any issues with valve identification.  :lol: What he was suggesting was that you consider doing a preamp valve swap and see how that works for you. A lot of our high-gainers(like your 333XL) are getting their sound from a clean and beefy power section and a heavily distorting preamp section. Changing power valves(in a high gainer) can be more subtle, like going from red to orange-red and preamp valves can be like going from red to blue. I've always had a more difficult time with preamp tubes myself, but once those are dialed in it's an easy selection for the power section.

That being said, I'm not so sure a Chinese V1 is going to be what you're after. I had a 333XL head and tried Chinese, JJs, Sovteks, some rebrands of them and I finally settled on a NOS RCA in V1 and JJs for the rest for those tones you mentioned.

Why don't you try a pair of KT88's?

[Dmoney]

might be worth trying a 5751 in V1, just to reduce some gain hiss slightly while not actually decreasing the overall preamp gain THAT much. Just adding that to the mix. I use a lot of gain most of the time and really like using a 5751. I currently have Sovtek one, but in future I'll try some different brands.

[jpfamps]

Got this reply from Doug from Dougstubes.com. So think I'm going to go with this.


(Metal Sounding Amp) For amp #1, go with the RUBY 6L6GCMSTR's and for the 4 x 12AX7's, a Ruby AC5 HG+ in V1, Penta Labs 12AX7's in V2 and V3 then the Sovtek LPS in V4.
 
(For the amp I described above) For amp #2, I would rather see the Ruby EL34BHT's and in V1 a Tung-Sol, V2, a Ruby(JJ) CZ HG, Sovtek WC in V3 then a JJ ECC803 in V4.

I have to admit, I'm fairly skeptical of this type of advice, especially from valve vendours who stand to gain financially from the transaction.

Even with a very simple amp you have bewildering combination of valves choices, and unless you know the circuit very well, and have tried the different valve combinations, you can't, in my opinion, make any rational recommendations.

Valves certainly do vary in their sound, however I can't see how you can recommend "a good valve for metal" etc.

Your best bet is to get a few different valves and do your own experimentation.