Man gets sick benefits for heavy metal addiction

[richard]

Wez, those definitions you provided the link to do not describe a great many of the 'depressives' I deal with i.e. people with no symptoms at all. I've worked in this area on and off for a long time. At one point I spent a day a week in a large psychiatric hospital attending case conferences with consultant pyschiatrists. That REALLY was an eye opener. I have no medical training but I've worked a lot with people with schizophrenia, bi-polar etc trying, and sometimes succeeding, in helping them back into normal life.  Most of the clients I worked with were trying as best they could to help themselves and at times it was a truly rewarding experience. At other times it was horrifically sad.

These days I'm at the other end of the scale. The vast majority of people I deal with have no legitimate reason at all for claiming sickness benefits. Some of my colleagues have major physical and mental health problems and yet they are determined to stand on their own two, one or no feet. There are many THOUSANDS of people who are just playing the system and these are the people I have a problem with.

[WezV]

i am not for one second claiming there are not people that make it up, or that you get to deal with a high number of those

my problems with your previous post are that it:

a) clearly tries to define depression with one set of limited symptoms
b) paints you as an expert, apparently only due to having suffered this limited set of symptoms

i don't see this as an acceptable viewpoint for someone who deals with depressed people, less so for doctors and the like... because for all pretenders in the world, there will be many people with true depressive symptoms that get lumped in with the rest. its accepted that depression will not manifest the same way in all people.  Even the DSM definitions are vague at best, very open to interpretation.  the doctors can only go on what you tell them so have no real way to know the difference and dont have the time or experience for real diagnosis

i dont claim to have a solution for the problem of people making things up, but its important to remember that not everyone is

[dave_mc]

people can and will play any system. the problem when you make it harder to play the system is that you only really get rid of the opportunists, and very often end up screwing a bunch of people who aren't playing the system, i.e. the actual people for whom the system is set up, who actually legitimately need the help being provided. the real experienced con artists will probably have already found a way round your new "foolproof" rules.

so basically all you can do is (a) disband all systems (that includes things like capitalism, government, etc. etc. etc. i.e. everything) or (b) pretty much put up with it. EDIT: to clarify: I'm obviously not saying there should be no rules. I'm saying that once you hit a certain point, making it more difficult to access the help does more harm than good, and puts off those who need the help from actually getting help, or worse, doesn't give them help when they need it.

And +1 on what wez is saying. just because you had depression (which I'm sorry to hear, by the way) and work closely with doctors doesn't make you an expert in it.

oh and if you're a socialist god help us :lol:

[richard]

You really don't have a clue. If my viewpoint is from a distorted perspective where are yours coming from ? My credentials , such as they are, are this: I've had the illness of clinical depression myself, I spent 5 years working closely with the Schizophrenia Fellowship, I've spent 15 years working in the benefit system administering the principles laid down in the infancy of the welfare state. My observations are based on YEARS of experience. What are yours based on ?

[Dmoney]

I have to back what Wez & Dave have said. I've got experience in the area too but I'm not going to list it.

[WezV]

You really don't have a clue. If my viewpoint is from a distorted perspective where are yours coming from ? My credentials , such as they are, are this: I've had the illness of clinical depression myself, I spent 5 years working closely with the Schizophrenia Fellowship, I've spent 15 years working in the benefit system administering the principles laid down in the infancy of the welfare state. My observations are based on YEARS of experience. What are yours based on ?

i am not after a pissing contest here.

since the first post i responded to, you have posted two more just to make yourself seem more like an expert,  and it does!

But like i said before, i was responding to the other post which states

"I had a bad episode of depression a few years back so I know of what I speak.

When you have clinical depression you are totally f***ked. You can't function in any meaningful way. I couldn't read a book, watch a TV programme, play a game of cards, hold a conversation or indulge in my favourite pastime of playing guitar"

this is what i am talking about when i mentioned a limited definition based on limited experience.  it basically suggest that if someone can drag themselves out of bed and out the front door they are not really depressed

it is simply wrong, which is why i linked to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders to show that the medical profession general accepts it is more complex, even if some doctors may not.

my experience is unimportant, it doesnt change the complex nature of depression

...

i have accepted your premise that a lot of people make this stuff up, and that you probably deal with a particularly high number of people like that.

I will accept that my viewpoint is probably distorted through my own experiences

i do not accept the idea that you are only truly depressed if you are completely unable to function.  


...

that's enough from me.  my point has been made and clarified and i hope you can see it for what it is - a suggestion  not to write off everyone of those thousands of people as a faker just because their symptoms are not obvious to you

[Loomer]

Okay now, can we get back to making fun of Manowar fans?

[nfe]

You really don't have a clue. If my viewpoint is from a distorted perspective where are yours coming from ? My credentials , such as they are, are this: ...confirmation bias...

Yep.

[richard]

Fair enough - I've nevr heard of Manowar before. Not sure I get it - is it SUPPOSED to be funny ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4qTi7cDtI4

[Transcend]

Fair enough - I've nevr heard of Manowar before. Not sure I get it - is it SUPPOSED to be funny ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4qTi7cDtI4

that should explain it all

[dave_mc]

You really don't have a clue. If my viewpoint is from a distorted perspective where are yours coming from ? My credentials , such as they are, are this: I've had the illness of clinical depression myself, I spent 5 years working closely with the Schizophrenia Fellowship, I've spent 15 years working in the benefit system administering the principles laid down in the infancy of the welfare state. My observations are based on YEARS of experience. What are yours based on ?

none. that's why i'm willing to listen to the doctors and research.