Amps vs comps

[gwEm]

There are a couple of things in between amp modelers and full stacks.

There are tube combos out there that rival full stacks in 'bigness' of tone.

I've seen too many live bands with guitarists playing 4-digit guitars through digital amps. They might as well could have been playing a plywood slab.

i don't disagree.. but even a 1x12 combo is hard to carry when you also have your guitar, mics, cables etc. and they can also sound bad in the wrong hands.

i'm mainly reacting against the posts of MDV and Crunch - their studios are clearly not a cost/space/weight effective alternative to a modeller.

its horses for courses, but to say modern modellers are toys/sound bad is clearly ridiculous. they have a place, and a very very important one at that.

i think carrying a heavy amp (even a combo) to a gig is becoming more and more old fashioned - but thats just me. maybe people enjoy that kind of punishment, inconvenience and expense.

[Ratrod]

You should have learned to play harmonica.

[gwEm]

You should have learned to play harmonica.

 :lol:

[Crunch]

Great if you've got a room you can record those in loud enough to sound their best...

Switchable from 3-50W.
http://matamp.co.uk/amplification/1224-mkii.aspx

That's not what's in the photo? Those are 50/100w amps without even master volumes.

Furthermore, again: The majority of people will get better results from a modeler than from amping a mic and cab at home, even if they have all the tools to do it well. Simply because of laziness and a lack of knowledge. That's why they're so popular. It's also why the quality of home recordings rockets year on year.

That's the link to the 1224 on the Matamp website. I don't take too much stock in the pictures, anyway. The 1224mkII is, regardless, an amazing amp that switches from 3/7/15/30/40/50W.

i'm unimpressed with these huge rigs being posted.

in an ideal world, we'd all have 120w full stacks weighing less than a kilo, with our favourite speakers, the size of a large stomp box, and for all £200. naturally it comes already mic'd up with fancy mics, and nice cables in to some good preamps.

this is not the world i live in.  i defy any 'normal punter' to tell me they can tell the difference between a half decent modern modeler and a big valve rig at loud club volumes. and if they can hear the difference, they wouldn't give a sh!t.

of course i enjoy my marshall into my mesa boogie cabs at home. but i don't enjoy carrying it to gigs just to play for 45 mins. since i'm not iron maiden its completely unrealistic to bring this rig on an aeroplane too.

if it wasn't for modelers theres no way i could do what i do as a musician. up to date modelers are the best innovation for guitarists in the last decade.

I get tired of big rigs, real fast. I got a Dual Terror so I could have a small apartment/practice/and pub amp for pretty cheap. I lug around a handmade 1x12"+1x15", most times. If I need the loud, I bring out the 3x12"+1x15".
My buddy has a 120W 6505+ with a Marshall 4x12". He's never had it cranked and is hesitant to move his rig, ever. He also has a bunch of pedals that he's always messing with since he can't find a tone he's content with.
Furthermore, we took the time to become decent at playing guitar and we spent the paychecks on our gear, why can't we take ten more minutes to figure out how to mic a speaker?
Different strokes for different folks, but we've been misinformed about what we need as amateur musicians. It's easy to assume that, since Kerry King plays a set of JCM800 full stacks, that's what we need to have a comparable tone.
I don't think modeling is a bad thing, mind. It's just upsetting, to me, to see artists resorting to sterile methods to orchestrate such a visceral and organic idea onto a finished product.
If we took the time to find our own path and live a life of moderation, we would have saved a lot of time and effort.

[Crunch]

i'm mainly reacting against the posts of MDV and Crunch - their studios are clearly not a cost/space/weight effective alternative to a modeller.

The pictures I posted are not of my studio. They're my wet dreams left over from never growing up.

[gwEm]

i'm mainly reacting against the posts of MDV and Crunch - their studios are clearly not a cost/space/weight effective alternative to a modeller.

The pictures I posted are not of my studio. They're my wet dreams left over from never growing up.

not looking to pick a fight with you mate..

[nfe]

Great if you've got a room you can record those in loud enough to sound their best...

Switchable from 3-50W.
http://matamp.co.uk/amplification/1224-mkii.aspx

That's not what's in the photo? Those are 50/100w amps without even master volumes.

Furthermore, again: The majority of people will get better results from a modeler than from amping a mic and cab at home, even if they have all the tools to do it well. Simply because of laziness and a lack of knowledge. That's why they're so popular. It's also why the quality of home recordings rockets year on year.

That's the link to the 1224 on the Matamp website. I don't take too much stock in the pictures, anyway. The 1224mkII is, regardless, an amazing amp that switches from 3/7/15/30/40/50W.

Yes, I now. My point was just that your post was a bit "Look at these! Get these and forget about modelers!" but the amps pictured were things that are little use to you unless you've the facilities to record very loud amps at big venue volumes.

And again, the 1224s are great. Matamp generally make lots of brilliant amps, but the majority of people will get better results when recording at home with Guitar Rig.

[Ephemeria]

I'd say recording on computers gives you a very close sound, especially with the Axe-FX. Vai and Petrucci use it. It's perfectly suitable which requires less messing about. To get a good recording sound from ya amp, there's so much messing about: hooking up ya mics off centre, center of the dome; getting it in a room where the room's reverb is perfect; finding a big room so you can crank ya amp, etc. If you have all these things at your disposal then you should definitely record with your amp though. But I'd say digital gives you a pretty good sound with less messing about. I'm personally a valve player, but I like to record with my PC so I have limitless tones at my disposal :)

[James C]

I record at home using a Line 6 Toneport and when i last gigged it was using the JVM410h that MDV now has in his studio.

there will always be tones that you don't like and tones that you do, It doesn't matter how they're acheived. I'm as capable of getting a terrible tone out of a boutique amp as an experienced producer is of getting an awesome tone from a modeller.

also, by the time i'm home/done daily cleaning cooking etc its 9 oclock, If i cranked up an amp at the time i'd be castrated on the spot! I do enjoy valve amps, but they don't work for my situation, modellers do, and i'm learning  how to get them to sound good in a mix.

[Crunch]

My apologies about all that, then, gents. I took no offence and had none intended for either of you.
Chalk it up to miscommunication, I suppose.

[shobet]

I think I've said this before, but most listeners don't know if you're playing though a matchless or a matchbox, they only care that they're enjoying it.

I don't think many of us are in a position where were lucky to be able to really crank the big amps we own. I agree the practicality of a small discrete digital box is way more convenient than having to lug a pair of ampeg svts and matching 8x10" around, but it is horses for courses.

I'm all for use what you're comfortable with, be that a full stack for your local pub gig or a modeler for an arena gig, it's your money at the end of the day.

I do think that eventually the software will get to a place where it's hard to discern if it an amp or a modeler. It will never be a perfect match but will be a close as damnit to not make a difference.

The debate about how you as a player respond to what you're playing through is a a whole different argument.

[Ephemeria]

I think I've said this before, but most listeners don't know if you're playing though a matchless or a matchbox, they only care that they're enjoying it.

I don't think many of us are in a position where were lucky to be able to really crank the big amps we own. I agree the practicality of a small discrete digital box is way more convenient than having to lug a pair of ampeg svts and matching 8x10" around, but it is horses for courses.

I'm all for use what you're comfortable with, be that a full stack for your local pub gig or a modeler for an arena gig, it's your money at the end of the day.

I do think that eventually the software will get to a place where it's hard to discern if it an amp or a modeler. It will never be a perfect match but will be a close as damnit to not make a difference.

The debate about how you as a player respond to what you're playing through is a a whole different argument.

I agree completely! For example: Michael Romeo from Symphony X plays a Line 6 Vetta II live. It's all about what you prefer and if it sounds good. As long as you interpret your music how you like it, and your audience like it...Who cares?

[Transcend]

whenever i want to play guitar i just come in and plug into my SLO i generally play pretty loud but i can turn the amp right down to normal speaking levels and still get a great sound.

If i had an auralex gramma (which i keep meaning to buy) i could play at any time without any body complaining.

And i live in a flat with people below above and at both sides.

The only restriction is out of respect i dont play loud after 7pm on weekdays or before 10am on weekends.

for me it takes longer to set up a modeller with a semi reasonable sound that doesnt come close to comparing and yes i have used an axe fx and an eleven rack both which werent even 10% of the way there.

The eleven rack was far closer though.

as for gigs i dont currently play anything live but have been to many auditions lately with my head and cab with no problems in taxis and on buses/trains (only the head in these situations)

they are heavy but i think the tone far outweighs having to lug them around

[PPPMAT]

Playing guitar is so much more than tone though. Amp modellers in my experience can get near as makes no difference in tone to a good valve amp but I still haven't played through one that feels like a valve amp.

I agree that modellers are very convenient and can't be beat for practicality but psychologically I like to know that I have hot bottles pumping out that sound! I never think that when lugging them about but thats another story

[Transcend]

Playing guitar is so much more than tone though.

It is and it isnt.

I personally play a heck of a lot better when im using a nice tone.

One thing you pointed out though is the dynamics and feel are also very important