How do you define "dark"?

[hellsSG]

Well as the title says. It's not the bass frequencies that makes it dark right? Is it the low mids??

I've never really grasped the term. Could someone explain and maybe post sound clips of a dark and a not dark sound?

Thank u :)

[BigB]

Well as the title says. It's not the bass frequencies that makes it dark right? Is it the low mids??

Not even.  It's  mostly related to a (relative) lack of hi-ends harmonics (think about what makes a "bright" sound... Yes, hi-ends).  Now that doesn't necessarily means a dark guitar has to sound dull or muffled, it's just a relative (and partly subjective) scale.

[ElectricTurkey4369]

Funny, I was just thinking about this today...

I don't know how to explain it, but what BigB said about high end harmonics is pretty accurate. Or perhaps if something sounds more open, it will be brighter?

[Telerocker]

Too much centermids or a lack of uppermids/treble.

[mongey]

Dark to me is a lack of cut and definition in the high mids/treble


 low mids /bass equates more to how tight a pick up is to me rather than its brightness  or darkness

most of the time to me dark = that sound that is amazing at home practising but doesnt cut through a full band enough

[Zaned]

It's the others man's muddy sound  :mrgreen:

Sort of like someone's vintage white is the other's piss yellow.

-Zaned

[darkbluemurder]

Dark to me is a lack of cut and definition in the high mids/treble

most of the time to me dark = that sound that is amazing at home practising but doesnt cut through a full band enough

I fully agree.

Cheers Stephan

[BigB]

Dark to me is a lack of cut and definition in the high mids/treble

most of the time to me dark = that sound that is amazing at home practising but doesnt cut through a full band enough

I fully agree.

And I dont :mrgreen:. My SG is darker than any other I could directly compare with, but it's not muddy, doesn't lack definition and cuts very well in the mix.

[gwEm]

i've played an amazing les paul with black dogs that i would describe as dark, but it wasn't muddy in the slightest and sounded brilliant!

so dark guitars can sound really good, but its a balancing out before getting muddy i guess.

i tend to err on the side of being bright myself. much prefer that sort of tone. you can always remove treble, its hard to add it.

[darkbluemurder]

so dark guitars can sound really good, but its a balancing out before getting muddy i guess.

It also depends on the bass player and other the other musicians in the band.

i tend to err on the side of being bright myself. much prefer that sort of tone. you can always remove treble, its hard to add it.

I played in a blues band once where I had to do this very thing to be audible. At that time I used a Telecaster with Barden pickups which everybody said was painfully bright when played alone but it was the only guitar that would cut through this band's mud. Don't think the band still exists.

Cheers Stephan

[BigB]

you can always remove treble, its hard to add it.

Indeed - but it's not as simple. A bright guitar with the tone rolled down won't sound like a darker guitar with the tone cranked up - it's just not the same harmonic content. Also, trebles - I mean, real trebles, where the brightness is - are not necessarily the best "ingredient" when it comes to cutting thru - you'll have to compete with hihat and cymbals and (depending on your drummer) even the snare drum in that frequency range - and they tend to make the guitar sound fizzy with overdrive (which wiill by itself generate harmonic contents too).

Not to say I dislike bright guitars - I'm quite fond of that TeleTwang(tm) and just can't stand muffled or boomy tones -, but "dark" and "muddy" are really not the same thing to me.

[darkbluemurder]

but "dark" and "muddy" are really not the same thing to me.

I again agree. "Muddy" just means that the bass is undefined, overwhelms all pick attach and generally makes it hard to distinguish single notes. "Dark" on the other hand is a sound with lots of bass and mids but only little treble and high mids.

Funny thing about treble not cutting through: that is exactly what I read about amp designer Steve Carr. He said in an interview that he experienced such a situation with a Celestion type speaker vs. the Eminence he ultimately chose as stock speaker for his Artemus model. Played alone the Celestion type was much brighter but in the band the brightness was eaten up by the cymbals, and the bass frequencies were eaten up by the bass. Effectively the more middy speaker cut through a lot better.

Cheers Stephan 

[mongey]

I totally agree muddy and dark are different things . I would equate one to the bottom half of the spectrum and one the top half. but its all subjectve terms. same as 3d, woody , smooth ,chewy


I also agree all this really depeneds on your bass players sound and how he plays . If the bass player is from the follow the guitar school then a dark sound can be great to create a massive,unified  sound . but if you bass player also likes to mess with the melody allot then you really have to get out of each others way so those notes are heard .

 

[Nolly]

To me dark refers specifically to rolled off treble response.

[Kyle]

.


I also agree all this really depeneds on your bass players sound and how he plays . If the bass player is from the follow the guitar school then a dark sound can be great to create a massive,unified  sound . but if you bass player also likes to mess with the melody allot then you really have to get out of each others way so those notes are heard .

 

If your bass player can only follow you, you need a new bass player  :lol:.  You have to bring something to the band besides mere sonic reinforcement. 

Dark is just a lack of treble/upper range overtones.