Do-it-all amp?

[Sancho]

Looks like I'll be in a covers band in the near future. We'll do old school metal and hard rock, probably.
I'm thinking about getting a H&K Switchblade, because it offers loads of tones with a single stomp of the foot.
Unfortunately, I've tried the Switchblade and found the tone OK, but somewhat lacking in detail. But for live work, I suppose I could live with its limitations. I have other amps for recording.

Alternatively, and much more expensive, there are a couple of amps that are midi controllable that would deliver killer tones when combined with a multi effect.

So, do I go with option A, a Switchblade, which is fairly cheap, or do I go for option B, a midi controllable amp (Engl?) with a multi effect processor?

[dave_mc]

I would go with B, though I should probably point out that I hated the switchblade I tried, and that I also really like engls :lol:

[MDV]

B.

You want to try and get an amp that has the most varied voicing from channel to channel though. Invader, VH4, something like that. A lot of multi channel amps dont actuallyu give you that much variety because they're 2 channel with another mode on one or both channels (like the powerball; advertised as 4, is in fact 2).

The most versatile amps I've played through are my VHT pittbull CL100 EQ, 2 channel, similar channels, both capable of clean to high gain, but it has a footswitchable boost and EQ and has never failed to deliver on anything from jazz to death metal; quite remarkable amp, makes me think that one good channel and a boost is worth lots of channels on lesser quality stuff. The other was a VH4, which is genuinely very different through its 4 channels (since it 4 different preamps), and all of them do what they do very well. Both these amps have a voicing thats a bit love or hate though.

Failing that, I'm gonna have to break character for a second and recommend that you at least entertain on of the panic-sales of an Axe FX standard or ultra (after the II was released) and get a poweramp for it. Thathas the effects as well, see.

[Sancho]

Not too keen on the whole digital modeler thing. Just me being old school...
A mate of mine is suggesting the Dual Rectifier. I could probably make do with a good multi channel amp (Engl something, Carvin V3, Dual Recto...) and a couple of my trusty pedals.

[MDV]

I sypathise. I use VSTs for scratch tracks, but thats it.

I dont find the DR versatile at all. It seems to me to be an amp that has one sound with various amounts of gain (from clean to daft). Most engls cover more territory, but they have a family sound as well (bright, glassy out of the box, but very responsive to different valves).

[_tom_]

Do you need loads of different types of tone and effects though? As the audience probably won't be able to tell anyway! Personally I would go for something that gives one one or two solid tones (ie a great dirty and clean) then worry about individual effects.

[dave_mc]

I dont find the DR versatile at all. It seems to me to be an amp that has one sound with various amounts of gain (from clean to daft). Most engls cover more territory, but they have a family sound as well (bright, glassy out of the box, but very responsive to different valves).

+1

Don't get me wrong- I like the recto (not at EU prices, though :(), but it's not what I'd get if I wanted versatility. There are other amps that do the versatility thing much better, if you ask me. A lot of them are fairly pricey, of course, but if you're looking at the recto you're already at the guts of £2k for the head alone.

Out of what I've tried, what I thought was pretty versatile:

Engl: SE, Blackmore, I assume Savage too (i have a savage se, which isn't quite the same, but which is supposedly similar). The invader is meant to be too, but i haven't tried it.

Bogner Ecstacy

VHT Ultralead. the sig X is meant to be super-versatile, but i haven't tried it yet.

Diezel VH4 (though i wasn't too fussed on the cleans)

H&K Triamp (though i wasn't super-fussed on the high gain)

Brunetti XLR-Evo

Genz Benz El-Diablo (from the looks of things, it's a bit love hate, but it's a bit like a more versatile recto).

Koch Multitone

Mesa Roadking

None of those is particularly cheap, but if you're willing to pay Recto money, most of those should be either under budget, or close enough to it that it may be worth stretching. If you ask me, all of those are more versatile than a Recto, unless the recto high gain tone is your main aim and versatility is lower priority.

[Telerocker]

Add the Brunetti 059, which has a nice pleximode too.
And, if you like it, the Marshall JVM.
Had the Koch Multitone, but it has not much tone, you have to pump up the gain to get reasonable sounds. Clean channel, ok, the rest so-so.

[MDV]

I really like the VH4 cleans. Its tempting to draw comparisons with its sounds, but while its very versatile (clean, crunch, a couple of high gain sounds), it very much has its own flavour for each of those sounds and I suppose you like em or dont. I liked the cleans best, I found the high gain a bit too low mid emphasised and saturated (this from a guy that has a powerball :lol:)

I would LOVE to get my hands on a UL. I adore my CL, its my go-to amp, I can only guess that the UL would be even better for me, given the reputed differences. The sig x is apparently extremely versatile, and more 'normal' sounding than other VHTs (which are very dry, uncompressed and aggressive sounding).

I've seen little but hate for the El Diablo myself, but havent even heard clips, so I shant comment.

By and large very good list, though dave. I'll add:

JVM: I dont consider this ultra-versatile, since its another 'same sound, lots of different EQs and amounts of gain to it' amps. You like that sound or you dont. But its various permutations of that sound go from clean to face melting and does all points in between, and is midi switchable. 4 channels, each with 3 modes, two masters, blah blah; lots of possible permutations. I like mine, I use it often for leads and crunch rhythm. I dont use it so much for higher gain or clean as my other amps do it better to my ears, but it can handle it.

Mesa Mks. All, especially the IV and V. Another really dry breed of amp with lots of versions of and ways to shape a common core sound. Like that dry, articulate, unforgiving voicing and it can do more or less anything for you.

The Invader is indeed very versatile. Had one in here not too long ago, was fun but I prefered my powerball. Its sounds all seemed a little bit engl trying not to be engl; warmer and smoother. Kinda like Marshall TSLs trying to be JCM800s and DRs in the same box. The engl realises this fantasy much better than the TSL did, but I found it lacking the precise laser-guided-pointy-sledgehammer mechanical aggression that I've come to know and love from engls. Maybe that would be a plus to you though :lol:

5150 :lol:

But seriously, if you get a decent amp with more limited options on the front panel, even something single channel, an 800 or deliverance or whatever, and use your guitars volume, a boost/OD and an EQ in the loop, then you can cover massive amounts of territory.

[Transcend]

5150 :lol:

I agree

But seriously, if you get a decent amp with more limited options on the front panel, even something single channel, an 800 or deliverance or whatever, and use your guitars volume, a boost/OD and an EQ in the loop, then you can cover massive amounts of territory.

I also agree with that too all you need is a good 1/2 channel amp max and just get to know how the EQ reacts with each channel and how the master volumes change the EQs (because they do!)

and you will be able to cover most ground

[Crunch]

My two cents.

Most people in a crowd won't notice or care about your sick guitar tone- especially if you're playing covers. In the rare occasion someone notices, then they'll either applaud your awesome tone or admit that you probably don't have the best cash flow.

You could snag a few Tech21 Character Series pedals that I think do a really good job depicting what they're getting at. You could run them through the input of a clean amp, the return of an effects loop,  an EHX 44 Magnum, or use the speaker emulation out to the PA (which is convincing).

See also: EHX English Muff'n and that weird Krank pedal that makes everything sound like a Mesa.

[Ratrod]

Marshall JCM800 and a couple of good overdrive/distortion pedals.

[Twinfan]

Marshall JCM800 and a couple of good overdrive/distortion pedals.

This.  Exactly what I'd be doing in your situation.

[dave_mc]

(a) I really like the VH4 cleans. Its tempting to draw comparisons with its sounds, but while its very versatile (clean, crunch, a couple of high gain sounds), it very much has its own flavour for each of those sounds and I suppose you like em or dont. I liked the cleans best, I found the high gain a bit too low mid emphasised and saturated (this from a guy that has a powerball :lol:)

(b) I would LOVE to get my hands on a UL. I adore my CL, its my go-to amp, I can only guess that the UL would be even better for me, given the reputed differences. The sig x is apparently extremely versatile, and more 'normal' sounding than other VHTs (which are very dry, uncompressed and aggressive sounding).

(c) I've seen little but hate for the El Diablo myself, but havent even heard clips, so I shant comment.

(d) By and large very good list, though dave. I'll add:

JVM: I dont consider this ultra-versatile, since its another 'same sound, lots of different EQs and amounts of gain to it' amps. You like that sound or you dont. But its various permutations of that sound go from clean to face melting and does all points in between, and is midi switchable. 4 channels, each with 3 modes, two masters, blah blah; lots of possible permutations. I like mine, I use it often for leads and crunch rhythm. I dont use it so much for higher gain or clean as my other amps do it better to my ears, but it can handle it.

Mesa Mks. All, especially the IV and V. Another really dry breed of amp with lots of versions of and ways to shape a common core sound. Like that dry, articulate, unforgiving voicing and it can do more or less anything for you.

The Invader is indeed very versatile. Had one in here not too long ago, was fun but I prefered my powerball. Its sounds all seemed a little bit engl trying not to be engl; warmer and smoother. Kinda like Marshall TSLs trying to be JCM800s and DRs in the same box. The engl realises this fantasy much better than the TSL did, but I found it lacking the precise laser-guided-pointy-sledgehammer mechanical aggression that I've come to know and love from engls. Maybe that would be a plus to you though :lol:

5150 :lol:

But seriously, if you get a decent amp with more limited options on the front panel, even something single channel, an 800 or deliverance or whatever, and use your guitars volume, a boost/OD and an EQ in the loop, then you can cover massive amounts of territory.

(a) yeah, i thought the cleans were the weak link. the crunch channel maybe had a little too much gain and edge too (considering there are two higher gain channels for that type of stuff, i'd probably be running channel 2 at edge-of-breakup levels on that style of amp), but aside from that it was great. Well, aside from the price :lol:

(b) I should probably add that I can't actually remember which vht it was that i tried (i tried a bunch of amps in a row, things got a bit hazy :lol: ), but i *think* it was the UL.

(c) yeah, i've seen a lot of hate. I don't like to throw out these accusations, but I'm not convinced at least some of the hate wasn't user error- it sounded terrible when i tried it, but then the guy in the shop helped me dial it in and it sounded pretty great (it had a bunch of weird knobs on it which weren't exactly self-explanatory). Admittedly, it could be a bit dark, so I'm not saying that everyone who hated it didn't dial it in right or anything like that.

(d) :drink:

yeah the jvm would be worth a look too. Laney vh100r, too, if you're trying to keep the price down. I haven't tried the marks, but i hear they're versatile too.

And yeah, there's nothing to stop you from getting a less versatile amp and using boosts etc. too. Can be a lot cheaper, as well.

[Sancho]

Do you need loads of different types of tone and effects though? As the audience probably won't be able to tell anyway! Personally I would go for something that gives one one or two solid tones (ie a great dirty and clean) then worry about individual effects.

No, I don't really need loads of different tones. Playing the riff right is 90% of getting the tone right.
Clean, rhythm and lead. But rhythm does not equal "crunch". I'm not Malcolm Young. I want a rhythm tone with some gain.
A two channel amp with footswitchable master volumes would do the trick as well.

But seriously, if you get a decent amp with more limited options on the front panel, even something single channel, an 800 or deliverance or whatever, and use your guitars volume, a boost/OD and an EQ in the loop, then you can cover massive amounts of territory.

I've used my volume knob to go to clean for years. But I'm bored with that approach. I want the amp to do the work.

Marshall JCM800 and a couple of good overdrive/distortion pedals.

This.  Exactly what I'd be doing in your situation.

Until I get my new amp sorted out, I'll be running a Jekyll & Hyde into a JCM 800 set for clean. This will give me acceptable three channel operation.

That being said, looks like my Carvin V3M is ticking all the right boxes, and its bigger brother is getting ever nearer the top of my list.