First Pickup Please Help

[marshallcrunch]

Hey Everyone

After much deliberating, I have decided to purchase some new BareKnuckles for two of my guitars. I have read great reviews and have heard good testimonials from different forums. I would be grateful with some sound advice on my pickups please!

PRS Custom 22 with Solid Rosewood Neck and Dragon II pickups.

I don't like the sound of these pickups or the current combination. The bridge pickups is very nasely and trebly. I really have to back off the tone to almost 1 or 2 to get a decent warm sound. The neck is not too bad but has very little character. The sound is very brittle if that makes sense. The guitar however sings acoustically but I am just not getting that transferred through to the amp.

I would like a warmer much fatter tone.  More of a versitile classic rock tone. I would like a good high output sound lots of gain but with clarity. I am thinking big fat harmonic 70's/ 80's power solos. Not as focussed as some 80's/ 90's speed metal though. I don't want that sterlie rack mounted sound that a lot of metal players get. Thinking Whitesnake, Aerosmith, Ozzy (Randy Rhoades), Black Sabbath. Early heavy metal before it started to evolve into the Megadeath/ Iron Maiden sound.

Gibson Les Paul Standard

I recently watch a youtube clip on Andertons re the Slash AFD100. They had a Gibson 1958 VOS plugged into the amp with Burstbucker pickups. It had some extreme gain coming out it which I loved Really thick and harmonic. My Les Paul doesn't seem to get that level or quality of gain. I would like a more hot classic vibe on this guitar. Very classic rock focussed, Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Free.

Any advice would be great!

I was initially thinking about the Holydiver for the PRS as it might take the extreme brightness out of it. My only concern is that it will be too scooped and middy which will make it a bit sterlie sounding. In regard to the Les Paul I was thinking about Nailbombs.

My other query is that some people find Bareknuckles lack gain in their pickups? Any one have any experience with this? In other words if you got a similar Dimarzio for instance it would sound much fatter with a lot more gain whereas the Bareknuckle sounds more vintage with low output regardless of its resistance rating?

[Telerocker]

Hi en welcome!

- To answer your last question. BKP's keep clarity, dynamics and stringseparation under highgain and don't mud up. That's why in the beginning they seem to 'lack gain' (a pickup doesn't have gain, but I know what you mean), but they can handle tremendous amounts of gain without mushing up, squealing or producing false harmonics.

- PRS: There a quite some PRS-users on the forum who will chime in sooner or later. The Holy Diver will fatten up things, but this one breezes '80's-metal. Can do some classic stuff too. Personally I think you should have a look at the Abraxas and the Crawler (a hotter Abraxas with a bit more compression). They both have a warm tone, with quite some mids and a round topend, the Abraxas having a bit more PAF-chime in the topend. The Abraxas is alnico IV, the Crawler alnico V (neck is IV though). Both have a dc-resistance between 14-15.5 k.

- Gibson: Nailbombs to me breeze 90's-metal. Maybe they can do classic rock, but I would not rule out Mules, which are wound after the or. 59-PAF's. Mules are really versatile (Kravitz use them too) and can do metal if you like. Black Dogs are an option too, with a more focused midrange.

Just my 2 cents

[Sancho]

My other query is that some people find Bareknuckles lack gain in their pickups? Any one have any experience with this? In other words if you got a similar Dimarzio for instance it would sound much fatter with a lot more gain whereas the Bareknuckle sounds more vintage with low output regardless of its resistance rating?

I posted a thread about my (preliminary) experiences with my freshly installed Holydiver. It touches on your question.
I would describe the Holydiver as "different". In the clean channel it sounds positively quiet, but in the lead channel it compresses and is so harmonically rich it all evens out. It can do a lot more than 80s metal I would say, but it is indeed ideally voiced for that application.
The Nailbomb was recommended to me for my Les Paul as bridging the gap between classic rock and metal. I'll see when they get here.

For the record : I think most pickups can be used for most styles. You don't need a Miracle Man to play in an Ozzy coverband, you dig?

[gwEm]

I've thought about this carefully, and I think VH2s for the PRS. They will give you noticeably more dynamics than a Holy Diver. Its got more push, but can still be described as open and PAF like with lots of vintage character.

I was playing my VH2 guitar on the weekend, and I don't know why I've left it for so long. It sizzles and will do early NWOBHM type tones with ease.

Holy Divers are good pickups too, but I think you'll like the VH2 more.

[Loomer]

- To answer your last question. BKP's keep clarity, dynamics and stringseparation under highgain and don't mud up. That's why in the beginning they seem to 'lack gain' (a pickup doesn't have gain, but I know what you mean), but they can handle tremendous amounts of gain without mushing up, squealing or producing false harmonics.

Exactly. I use the War Pig, which I assume is the highest output pickup at least in the BKP range. That is then fed through a dual-stack setup with both heads set gain-wise somewhere between "Absurd" and "You're $%&#ing joking, aren't you?!", and even then the chord definition is still amazing. It may just be that, like Telerocker said, people aren't used to things being this clearly defined and then don't quite know what to make of it. I personally also enjoy a bit of mud to a guitar tone, both on record and for myself. It neuters the "mood" of it a bit, I think, if it's too clean and defined. Hence my abject hatred of "Djent"..

[marshallcrunch]

Some good replies so far thanks guys.

So at the moment we are looking at Holydiver, Crawler or VHII for the PRS. Possibly Blackdogs for the Les Paul.

I must say I haven't considered the VHII. Their output seems very low for a hard rock pickup. Are they similar in voicing to the Holydivers? If so I would like the extra gain on tap. I do want a crunch and open sound to the PRS but I want thick sounds on the lead work. The tone in my head at the moment is more Doug Aldrich. Vintage with a modern edge.

I mainly be playing through a Marshall AFD100 and an original Plexi . One for real classic rock and one for a bit more gain! It is really important that the pickup drives and overloads the valves as I will not be using overdrive pedals.

Pickup output is important but open sounding snarl and good harmonics are very important as well. Difficult to describe I want a powerful high gain rock sound but open, squealing harmonics, thick beefy lead notes but not 80's rack mounted sterile fluid widdle lol. I have an ibanez that does widdly metal great but I want some nice tones from the PRS and Les Paul.

[gwEm]

Their output seems very low for a hard rock pickup.

It might only be 9.whatever k, but don't forget this is 42 gauge wire - its got very good output. marshall crunch indeed :)

Anyway - just an idea, but I think it will be up your street.

[Philly Q]

I've thought about this carefully, and I think VH2s for the PRS. They will give you noticeably more dynamics than a Holy Diver. Its got more push, but can still be described as open and PAF like with lots of vintage character.

I was playing my VH2 guitar on the weekend, and I don't know why I've left it for so long. It sizzles and will do early NWOBHM type tones with ease.

Holy Divers are good pickups too, but I think you'll like the VH2 more.

Which guitar have you got VHIIs in gwEm? 

I'm sure it works in an LP or PRS, but I always think of it more as a superstrat pickup.

[gwEm]

I've thought about this carefully, and I think VH2s for the PRS. They will give you noticeably more dynamics than a Holy Diver. Its got more push, but can still be described as open and PAF like with lots of vintage character.

I was playing my VH2 guitar on the weekend, and I don't know why I've left it for so long. It sizzles and will do early NWOBHM type tones with ease.

Holy Divers are good pickups too, but I think you'll like the VH2 more.

Which guitar have you got VHIIs in gwEm?  

I'm sure it works in an LP or PRS, but I always think of it more as a superstrat pickup.

it *is* in a superstrat.. though i've played some in a PRS of Phil Kings, and Hunter seems to like them in his Les Paul.

[Telerocker]

I have the VHII in ash-strat (HSS) and it can produce wicked tones, especially when you dig in. It has enough output and the overtones jump out. But, as Philly says it seems that the VHII is first of all the hb for superstrats. Maybe I'm wrong. Nevertheless I don't think it is what's Marshallchrunch looking for.

[darkbluemurder]

I second Telerocker's suggestion of Abraxas and Crawlers for the PRS. Both would be a major improvement over the Dragon IIs. I have a PRS-style swamp ash guitar with 24 frets and wraparound tailpiece where I had both sets in. The guitar is untypical for a swamp ash guitar as it is not a bright guitar. I preferred the Abraxas in this guitar. The Crawlers were good, too but a bit too dark and compressed.

For the Les Paul I am also with Telerocker on the Mules or Black Dogs recommendation based on their description and the description of what you want to achieve.

Cheers Stephan

[Philly Q]

For classic rock pickups with a little extra output, along with the Abraxas and Crawlers the Emeralds must be worth considering too. 

[Sancho]

Emeralds were suggested to me by both Tim and Ben when I planned to make my Les Paul a strictly classic hard rock guitar.
I should probably get a couple of guitars just to try all the BKPs I'm curious about :D

[marshallcrunch]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Everyone is naming different pickups lol getting very confused now. Got about 5 options!

So although the Holydiver is a good pickup it may be a bit too compressed and metally? The VHII might be an option as I like the sound. My main concern is that one of the main reasons is that my PRS seems too bright would the VHII accentuate this? Other option is the Crawler or emeralds which are more classic rock.

Can we help narrow this down guys?

[gwEm]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Everyone is naming different pickups lol getting very confused now. Got about 5 options!

So although the Holydiver is a good pickup it may be a bit too compressed and metally? The VHII might be an option as I like the sound. My main concern is that one of the main reasons is that my PRS seems too bright would the VHII accentuate this? Other option is the Crawler or emeralds which are more classic rock.

Can we help narrow this down guys?

the holy diver is certainly more compressed than a VH2, but its got really good dynamics anyway. it sounds very natural/sweet due to its alnico magnet. don't worry about it sounding metally in that way.