Does anyone else think what this Luthier told me is a pile of rubbish?

[Nephilim]

Atm, I've been looking around at different guitar Luthiers, seeing who can do my design the best. I managed to find one in Manchester which is where I live, and would be great since I can visit him. I looked at the guitars he made, and he seems a really good Luthier. Now I discuss with him about what guitar I want, and I admit, what I want requires some random choices of wood - basically the Petrucci combo: Alder Body, Mahogany Tone Block, Maple Top, Mahogany Neck, Ebony Fingerboard.

Now here's where I just lost all faith in him. He told me that the he will do that wood combo if need be; but that it will probably make no difference. He said that every guitar he's made sounded very similar, no matter what wood he used. He said it's the pickups and scale length that make the biggest impact. he then went into a discussion telling me that if I was to put single coils on a Les Paul, it would sound like a Strat because of the pickups, etc.

Does anyone else think this sounds like advice coming from a tone dead Luthier, or is he actually right? Oh and he's an extensive EMG player lol.

[shobet]

Care to name names? Some us up in the North West may have come across the gent.

[Nephilim]

I think it would be quite bad to name him on here, lol. All I can say is he is based in Manchester, and a bit of a google search will probably take you straight there.

I just want to know if this sounds a bit strange? I know he's a good luthier though by his work. It's just he sounded a bit better with the sander than his ears lol

[FELINEGUITARS]

Timber choices do count a lot IMO

A lot of these may be evened out if using EMGs which by their nature impart their own tonal footprint on a guitar - BUT YOU STILL HEAR THE DIFFERENCE EVEN WITH EMGs.
Think of what EMGs do like putting your guitar through a graphic EQ - the settings on that EQ unit will sculpt the sound to a large degree but you still hear the tonality of your guitar as well.

He is correct to a degree saying that scale length can affect tone , but more than that it's feel and response in my experience

Single coils on a Les Paul will still sound like single coils but the woods of the guitar and scale length will affect the sound.
A P90 in a LES Paul will sound fat , but it will still have a certain/similar fatness in an alder strat.

I have built mahogany bodied strats and they have a bit more oomph to them - even with 25.5" scale and stock single coils, so everything contributes to the sound you hear.

I can hear the differences between all the guitars I have made - even when made with similar timbers - each has it's own qualities.
What others may notice is that all of what I produce has a similar playability and feel about them.

[Nephilim]

Hey Feline. Ya know, I've constantly been always drawn back to your work for some strange reason. So I've just had a look at your website again...AND I FOUND IT! I love the shape and headstock of the 3rd a 4th guitar down in this gallery --> http://www.felineguitars.com/gallery/Southpaw_gallery.html. But I'm obviously right handed. Do you have any more pictures of these style of guitars so I can see them from a few different angles?

[Sancho]

A guitar is more than the sum of its parts. But all of those parts play a role.
Wood, scale length, pickups... It will all contribute to the tone of the finished instrument.

As for EMGs... I had 81s in two guitars. A Gibson Les Paul Standard and a cheap BC Rich Kerry King V.
The Les Paul sounded like a Les Paul on steroids, the BC Rich sounded like a cheap guitar.

[Philly Q]

I think Feline's answer says it all really.

[shobet]

Ged - I assume it's him as he likes his EMGs - has done work for me and a couple of others here that I know of. He did a good enough job on refretting a strat with stainless steel frets for me and I know he's made a neck for Matt.

He's not the fastest, but his work is ok in my experience.

[gwEm]

Feline has the answers..

that said, I do have doubts about the concept of a 'tone block' sounds very marketing to me

[WezV]

john birch did feel similar - his focus was completely on controlling tone through pickups and electronics and pretty much used solid maple for everything.

I completely disagree - but do own a john birch and love the way it sounds (although it does lack its original pickups ;) )

its a bit like old 80's guitars like yamaha SG's.  built with the belief that heavier guitars sounded better.   Again i completely disagree with the principal - but like the results (apart from the weight).

So whilst i personally disagree with those particular build philosophies i dont think it automatically means you will get dud guitars.  And if you have played his other guitars and like them then i wouldn't worry too much about it.  You never know, your wood choices might convince him he is wrong ;)

...

but a les paul with a strat pickup never does sound just like a strat.  though obviously it sounds more strat like than your average les paul, and to some people that means it sound like a strat :?

[Philly Q]

Of course there's also the construction style, as well as the timbers, to take into account. 

I don't think a bolt-on ever sounds the same as a set-neck. 

That said, I've never tried a bolt-on with a mahogany body and neck, or an ash body with a glued-in maple neck.... so who knows? 

[FELINEGUITARS]

Hey Feline. Ya know, I've constantly been always drawn back to your work for some strange reason. So I've just had a look at your website again...AND I FOUND IT! I love the shape and headstock of the 3rd a 4th guitar down in this gallery --> http://www.felineguitars.com/gallery/Southpaw_gallery.html. But I'm obviously right handed. Do you have any more pictures of these style of guitars so I can see them from a few different angles?

Ah - the old Southpaw stealth ( a hybrid of the Ibanez S abre and Ibanez Radius made for one of our left-handed customers)

[Frank]

Well I'm sure I know the bloke you mean and yes, his guitars look like first-class work. Personally I've always believed that the pickups and amp are there to amplify the acoustic sound of the string and obviously that is strongly determined by the resonance of the body and neck woods. Seems logical to me, most guitarists can clearly hear the difference between maple and rosewood fingerboards so surely the body wood is going to affect the tonal balance of the instrument.

Having said all that ... if he makes the guitar exactly the way you specify and it plays well ... then isn't that the same guitar whether he believes the tone argument or not? I mean, if I ask a tailor to make me a purple suit with orange piping and a big smiley face on the back then I wouldn't expect him to like the design, even if I loved it.

Which I probably wouldn't but you get the point.

You do get the point don't you?

[Nephilim]

Well I'm sure I know the bloke you mean and yes, his guitars look like first-class work. Personally I've always believed that the pickups and amp are there to amplify the acoustic sound of the string and obviously that is strongly determined by the resonance of the body and neck woods. Seems logical to me, most guitarists can clearly hear the difference between maple and rosewood fingerboards so surely the body wood is going to affect the tonal balance of the instrument.

Having said all that ... if he makes the guitar exactly the way you specify and it plays well ... then isn't that the same guitar whether he believes the tone argument or not? I mean, if I ask a tailor to make me a purple suit with orange piping and a big smiley face on the back then I wouldn't expect him to like the design, even if I loved it.

Which I probably wouldn't but you get the point.



You do get the point don't you?

As much as that's a good point. And yeah his workmanship might be Top Class!! But if you was having a custom guitar made, wouldn't you want someone who knows his tonewoods? If he can't tell the difference, how are you going to be sure that you are getting a top quality piece of wood? I mean wouldn't you want your Luthier to be able to check it's tonal qualities? As well as being able to make the Body & Neck resonate beautifully?

[Twinfan]

If you don't think he's up to the job, just move on and find another luthier.  There are several out there to choose from.......