Scientific experiment with old violins (2 Stradivari) - another myth destroyed

[gwEm]

here we go again!

I'd post pictures of some massive tits, but the last lot got deleted.

maybe pikeys stole them?

[Roobubba]

Sorry, it's just such a pointless argument - all of our definitions are arbitrarily imposed by nature (even the definition of nature). You might as well argue that everything is pure physics, and that everything that occurs above the Planck length is merely an inconsequential extension of what happens near that minimum distance.

I do understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with you about it! As such, there's no point in continuing to argue: we'll not agree on it.

Cheers Philly - you know I'm right about teles and MacTw@ too, really ;)

[Chris]

Sorry, it's just such a pointless argument - all of our definitions are arbitrarily imposed by nature (even the definition of nature). You might as well argue that everything is pure physics, and that everything that occurs above the Planck length is merely an inconsequential extension of what happens near that minimum distance.

No, my argument has nothing to do with that.  I have heard people make that argument before (often), but I would not agree with it personally - you can't say that everything is pure Physics.  that's actually the opposite of what I'm saying.

I do understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with you about it! As such, there's no point in continuing to argue: we'll not agree on it. 

From your comments it seems that you don't understand my point, as you still seem to be arguing against something else above, but that could very well be my failure to communicate it well.  More than happy to agree to disagree though!  I think it is a healthy attidude, after all if we all agreed on everything it would be a very boring world indeed.

This will be the second time this one has been put to bed in this thread - let's hope we can keep it that way this time!  :lol:   It is distracting me from the ladies in skimpy clothes wrapped around guitars...

[Roobubba]

I do understand what you're arguing, I just don't agree with you! I haven't explicitly re-stated your point that you think music is a fusion of science and art (not one or the other per se), but that doesn't mean I don't see what you're saying.  I never meant to imply that you were saying music isn't at least part art.

What I'm saying is that I do not agree that music is part science, part art. In my opinion, music is squarely an art form, and is not even part science. You do not need to 'learn' or 'use' mathematics to make music, nor to make a painting, or write a poem, even though all of these may be studied and analysed in a very mathematical manner! The art/science/humanities boundaries that we apply are of course manifest constructs, but I think they're helpful and in general pretty accurate!

You disagree with that, that's fine!

[Chris]

I do understand what you're arguing, I just don't agree with you! I haven't explicitly re-stated your point that you think music is a fusion of science and art (not one or the other per se), but that doesn't mean I don't see what you're saying.  I never meant to imply that you were saying music isn't at least part art.

What I'm saying is that I do not agree that music is part science, part art. In my opinion, music is squarely an art form, and is not even part science. You do not need to 'learn' or 'use' mathematics to make music, nor to make a painting, or write a poem, even though all of these may be studied and analysed in a very mathematical manner! The art/science/humanities boundaries that we apply are of course manifest constructs, but I think they're helpful and in general pretty accurate!

You disagree with that, that's fine!

I do disagree with that, as I already said, but again I think we can just agree to disagree - no issue.

Now what is all this about Teles?  :lol:   (Just kidding  )

[Roobubba]

I do understand what you're arguing, I just don't agree with you! I haven't explicitly re-stated your point that you think music is a fusion of science and art (not one or the other per se), but that doesn't mean I don't see what you're saying.  I never meant to imply that you were saying music isn't at least part art.

What I'm saying is that I do not agree that music is part science, part art. In my opinion, music is squarely an art form, and is not even part science. You do not need to 'learn' or 'use' mathematics to make music, nor to make a painting, or write a poem, even though all of these may be studied and analysed in a very mathematical manner! The art/science/humanities boundaries that we apply are of course manifest constructs, but I think they're helpful and in general pretty accurate!

You disagree with that, that's fine!

I do disagree with that, as I already said, but again I think we can just agree to disagree - no issue.

Now what is all this about Teles?  :lol:   (Just kidding  )

Don't get me started! :P

[BigB]

The one I'm really curious about now personally is the neck joint construction of a guitar, because I've convinced myself that I need a neck-through guitar in my collection for the extra sustain and the different sound, but that article that I posted earlier actually suggests that the neck through guitar sustained less than the other two (albeit the difference was very minor), and that test did not not rely solely on perception, so no psychoacoustics were involved.  Being a guitar builder I'd be really interested to hear your views on that one.

I have a neck-thru Vox Custom 24 and it does sustain for ages. Really impressive. Now I also owned a cheaper bolt-on neck strat-like Vox Standard 25 from the same maker (uncle matz) and year, and much to my surprise the sustain was almost on par with the Custom 24. Both guitars made mostly of thick heavy hard maple, the Standard 25 had a thicker neck profile and the neck pocket was really tight. Oh, and unplugged it was much more resonant than the Custom 24.

HTH

[Chris]

The one I'm really curious about now personally is the neck joint construction of a guitar, because I've convinced myself that I need a neck-through guitar in my collection for the extra sustain and the different sound, but that article that I posted earlier actually suggests that the neck through guitar sustained less than the other two (albeit the difference was very minor), and that test did not not rely solely on perception, so no psychoacoustics were involved.  Being a guitar builder I'd be really interested to hear your views on that one.

I have a neck-thru Vox Custom 24 and it does sustain for ages. Really impressive. Now I also owned a cheaper bolt-on neck strat-like Vox Standard 25 from the same maker (uncle matz) and year, and much to my surprise the sustain was almost on par with the Custom 24. Both guitars made mostly of thick heavy hard maple, the Standard 25 had a thicker neck profile and the neck pocket was really tight. Oh, and unplugged it was much more resonant than the Custom 24.

HTH

Thanks for the info - You're echoing what a lot of other people have said too, that the neck joint doesn't make that much difference sustain-wise.  I think I'll still invest in a neck-through guitar, because there are other things that appeal too, such as the less bulky heel, for instance, but at least I know now that sustain should probably not be a difference given similar woods and build quality, etc.

[BigB]

(...)
but at least I know now that sustain should probably not be a difference given similar woods and build quality, etc.

As far as I'm concerned, I think most of the difference between these 2 guitars wrt/ sustain comes from the bridge (vintage trem bridge on the Standard 25, heavy TOM-like bridge on the Custom 24) and nut (cheap plastic nut on the Standard 25, brass nut on the Custom 24).

Also and for the record: the Standard 25 weights something like 11 or 12 lbs (ouch), the Custom 24 is around 10lbs, very similar body shapes but the Standard 25 is bit bigger. Not to imply that "more mass == more sustain" - it's certainly much more complicated, as I've seen way lighter guitars with very good sustain - but there's still probably some relation between mass/density and sustain, depending on the exact material and whatnots.

My 2 cents...

[Chris]

Excellent, thanks for the info.  I was looking for something with a hardtail, so maybe that will help...