How much headroom is enough?

[Lucifuge]

I'm looking for a small valve amp, for home practising and recording, and trying to work out how much wattage I actually need.

I don't need it to be loud enough for gigging or rehearsing with a drummer.

I'm also not looking for heavy drive or even crunch sounds.

What I do want is to be able to hit that 'just slightly breaking up' point, where playing gently gives clean sounds, but hitting the strings harder gives the beginning of overdrive - at a volume which won't annoy the neighbours in a small flat.

It would be nice if there was some clean headroom, but really I should be able to get cleans by turning down the guitar's volume.

I know even a 5-watt amp can be way too loud when cranked, but if I don't want to crank it, and just get to the point of slight breakup, will 5 watts still be too much?

[Ian Price]

In my experience 5 watts won't get you a just breaking up sound at an acceptable household sound level. I had a 5 watt Laney Lionheart and found it was too much - I'm a Frusciante nut and thought this would get me the sound, I was wrong! With a decent valve amp you should be able to get that touch sensitivity you are describing.

Personally I have had better success with a Martamp Deluxe (with Power Scaling) and a MJW Bantam (also with POwer Scaling). The power scaling should allow you to play at a good volume and get that elusive just breaking up tone you are looking for. A few of the amp techies on here should be able to give you a more useful answer than I.

I think Andy R has a Laney Cub and has used it for home recording use with great results - without looking at it I'm pretty sure it has different power settings.

There are also a few Cornell users on the forum and I think some of those models you can wind down to 0.25 watts.

[Twinfan]

If you're happy with pre-amp drive only, you may just need an amp with a master volume.

I personally love the sound of an Orange Tiny Terror set with the gain low for those just-breaking-up tones.

[juansolo]

I've got a 5W Goldstar that is mostly clean until you absolutely dime it (it's how I specced it). Dimed 5W is LOUD in a small room, and your neighbours will know about it.

[dave_mc]

If you're happy with pre-amp drive only, you may just need an amp with a master volume.

+1

if you're in an apartment/flat i can't see any valve amp being quiet enough to crank without relying on some form of power scaling (or just preamp gain as dave said).

[djl]

I've got a cornell romany - 2w mode when cranked is too loud for the house, unless you have understanding neighbours (or a big house). The 0.5w mode is fine though, and I think the newer ones have an even lower output mode. They're not  cheap though, and are very much a one sound amp.

[38thBeatle]

I have a 10w Laney Cub. It gets pretty loud but then again I can dial in gain and keep the volume down. It was a great buy . Great clean tones- I would say a little Fender like. I got mine for £99 off Ebay..

[FredD]

Orange Tiny Terror : Vox Night Train : Ibanez T5 : F##k the Neighbours  8)

[keith]

Orange Dual Terror + Les Paul ..............i got no neighbours............sorry that probably doesnt answer your question

[Andrew W]

I have the Cornell Romany with the extra reduced power level, I think it's 0.125W. It's what I tend to use at home and it does break up nicely at non neighbour enraging levels. This clip is mine at the lowest setting with a Bkackguard Flat 52 loaded Tele.

I really like the Romany, it's incredibly touch sensitive and does quite a range of tones, up to AC/DC or ZZ Top levels. You won't be playing teh br00talz with it though. Best amp I've ever owned but as has been mentioned, not cheap.

[shobet]

I've an MJW 1w cub and that's plenty loud enough to annoy the neighbours.

[Lucifuge]

The Laney Cub 12 is 15 watts at full power but has a 1 watt setting as well; there are a number of other amps on the market with similar power reduction, eg VHT Special 6 Ultra, Vox AC4TV.

However, if even very low wattages are still too much to get any power amp drive at all, then maybe I would be better  off getting something that sounds great clean and use a pedal to drive the preamp harder (or a master volume amp as Twinfan suggested.)

As I said before, I don't want much drive, I'm interested in mostly clean sounds with just a slight bit of breakup. However, I am a bit wary of cheap mass produced valve amps as they seem to have a reputation for fragility or unreliability. On the other hand, a boutique quality amp is probably beyond my budget for the foreseeable future.

[Ian Price]

Just to give a reference point what do you think your budget would be? Are you looking for a head or a combo etc?

[dave_mc]

i don't think a pedal to drive the preamp harder is going to work (e.g. a clean boost or od with the gain turned low and level high)... while it probably does allow you access to more overdriven tones at slightly lower volumes, slightly is the operative word there (assuming you're running the amp clean, which you would be if you had a non-master valve amp at apartment levels). it still increases the volume way too much.

a pedal which produces its own overdrive or distortion would work fine, though.

[Lucifuge]

Probably a maximum of around £350 - and probably a combo, since the budget would have to include both the head and the cab if I went that route, and most 1x12 cabs cost more than half of that on their own.